OXFORD, Mich. – The trial for Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of the Oxford High School shooter who killed four people, has completed its fourth day Tuesday, and we have full updates from the proceedings.
Last week, the prosecution called five witnesses to the stand across Thursday and Friday. We heard from three additional witnesses on Monday, and prosecutors continued to call witnesses on Day 4.
Here are some quick facts heading into the trial:
- Jennifer and James Crumbley are both facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with their son’s mass shooting. Those charges stem from the deaths of 14-year-old Hana St. Juliana, 16-year-old Tate Myre, 17-year-old Madisyn Baldwin, and 17-year-old Justin Shilling.
- The Crumbley parents were originally going to be tried together, but they asked for separate trials in November, and a judge granted their request.
- Defense attorneys Shannon Smith and Shaun Godwin represent Jennifer Crumbley. Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald and assistant Prosecutor Marc Keast represent the people. Oakland County Circuit Judge Cheryl A. Matthews is hearing the case.
- The shooter was sentenced in December to life in prison without the chance of parole.
Here are the full updates from Day 4 of the trial:
Questions about this week
- 4:31 p.m. Tuesday
Smith asked the prosecution to tell her who they are calling tomorrow and whether they would finish calling witnesses before the end of this week. She wants to let her own witnesses know what to expect.
Smith also said she has one witness who will need to come with an interpreter. She has arranged privately for that interpreter to come with the witness.
Matthews asked deputies to take Jennifer Crumbley from the room so she can release the jury.
McDonald asked to approach the desk and said this doesn’t need to be on the record.
Jury excused for day
- 4:30 p.m. Tuesday
Judge Matthews excused the jury for the day and told them to be back at 8:30 a.m. Wednesday.
No cross examination
- 4:29 p.m. Tuesday
The prosecution finished its questioning of Koteles, and Smith had no questions.
Shots fired inside high school
- 4:28 p.m. Tuesday
Koteles said the gun was fired 32 times inside the school.
Bathroom photo
- 4:27 p.m. Tuesday
Exhibit 22 showed the bathroom where Justin Shilling was killed. Koteles said a cartridge was found outside the bathroom.
This photo was showed to the jury.
Photos of classrooms
- 4:26 p.m. Tuesday
Another photo showed the outside of room 223. A ricochet was found in the door.
Koteles said shots were fired at rooms 220 and 215.
More shooting details
- 4:23 p.m. Tuesday
Koteles said 18 fired shell casings were found in the long portion of the hallway
He also said they found evidence that shots had been fired into classrooms.
There were shots fired into room 247 from the hallway, Koteles said.
Gunshots were fired through the glass of room 244 from the hallway, Koteles said.
Shots fired near bathroom
- 4:20 p.m. Tuesday
Koteles said shell casings suggest 14 shots were fired in the area around the bathroom.
Shooter’s belongings left in bathroom
- 4:18 p.m. Tuesday
Prosecutors showed a map of Oxford High that had notations of where police found evidence.
Two victims were found between rooms 258 and 256, Koteles said. Another victim was found just outside of the school.
Koteles said the shooter was in a bathroom next to room 258 right before he began to fire shots. These are the belongings of the shooter, which were left in the bathroom.
Inside high school
- 4:12 p.m. Tuesday
Koteles said he and other members went through the crime scene itself to see what kind of evidence they would find. It was an initial walkthrough.
He reported back to his team to let them know what everyone’s job would be, Koteles said.
Photographs were taken and a 3D scanner took a scan of the crime scene to document exactly where evidence and bodies were at the scene.
Arriving at school
- 4:10 p.m. Tuesday
Koteles said he was on standby while his cohorts at the department gathered evidence. He went into the building to collect a firearm. It was the SIG Sauer 9 mm
It was night by the time he got to walk through the school, Koteles said.
Koteles called to school
- 4:09 p.m. Tuesday
Koteles was working in the lab when the Oxford High School shooting happened.
He learned about the shooting at 1:15 p.m. He was sent to the school as the on-call crime scene investigator to process the scene.
Witness: Robert Koteles
- 4:07 p.m. Tuesday
Robert Koteles been with the Oakland County Sheriff’s office for 17 years. He works in the forensic laboratory. He’s the crime scene supervisor.
He has a forensics science degree from Michigan State University. He said he does “major crime scenes” a couple times per month.
Jury returns
- 4:06 p.m. Tuesday
The jury returned to the courtroom. They will hear one more witness before the end of Day 4.
Judge admits exhibit 22
- 4:02 p.m. Tuesday
Exhibit 22 shows the bathroom where Justin Shilling was killed, according to Keast.
He described the trash can where the shooter eventually discarded the gun. He said it’s critical to show the path of the shooter.
“We could have extracted thousands of photographs, but we didn’t,” Keast said.
“This is a case about causing death,” Matthews said. “That is one of the elements.”
Judge admits exhibit 13
- 3:58 p.m. Tuesday
Keast handed Matthews the photos that are under dispute. Keast said the photos will be used as the next witness talks about the shooter’s path.
Matthews said the photo doesn’t seem to be exceptionally gruesome. Keast said that was intentional.
Keast said the photo also showed the integrity of the wall and shows shell casings.
“This is not gruesome,” Matthews said. “It doesn’t show an actual injury. It does show the path of the shooter, and death is an element (in this case).”
Exhibit 13 was admitted.
Photos in question
- 3:57 p.m. Tuesday
The defense objects to the photos because it shows one of the victims who was killed, and another shows a “pool of blood,” according to Smith.
“This feels like a not-mid-trial type of issue,” Matthews said.
Smith said she notified Keast as soon as she saw the photos that she had objections.
Jury dismissed
- 3:56 p.m. Tuesday
Keast said there is time to get through one more witness, but said he first needed to discuss a matter without the jury present.
The jury was dismissed for a short break and Keast said he wanted to discuss photographs to which the defense objects.
No cross examination
- 3:55 p.m. Tuesday
The prosecution had no further questions for Peschke after the video. Smith also said she had no questions.
Specifics about video
- 3:54 p.m. Tuesday
The time stamp on the police car video shows that Jennifer Crumbley first sat down in the car at 2:56 p.m. Nov. 30, 2021.
The video lasted 49 minutes. It ended with the timestamp at 3:44 p.m. Nov. 30, 2021.
Video ends
- 3:53 p.m. Tuesday
The video that was played in court ended.
Officer speaks
- 3:52 p.m. Tuesday
The silence was broken at the timestamp 3:42 p.m. Nov. 30, 2021.
The officer said he didn’t realize she had talked to a sergeant earlier. He told Jennifer Crumbley that they can’t go inside until the search warrant is finished, but they could go get some coffee or a drink.
He response was difficult to understand in the video. She appeared to tell the officer that they don’t keep any guns in their cars.
“I work for a company that has attorneys and was there when I walked out,” Jennifer Crumbley said. She said she was told not to say anything, but the rest of her statement was difficult to hear.
She then got out of the police car.
Jennifer Crumbley sits silently in police car
- 3:42 p.m. Tuesday
For the next several minutes of the video, Jennifer Crumbley sat silently in the back of the police car.
Jennifer Crumbley phone call
- 3:29 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley could be seen talking on the phone at 3:20 p.m., but the words were difficult to make out. She hung up at 3:21 p.m.
She smoked a cigarette while sitting in the car.
Jennifer Crumbley stands up
- 3:28 p.m. Tuesday
The door to the car opened up at 3:19 p.m. and Jennifer Crumbley stood up briefly.
The officer asked her to have a seat after a moment, so she sat down with the door open.
Cigarette and cellphone
- 3:25 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley asked the officer for a cigarette and said her husband has them.
“I just really want a cigarette,” she reiterated. The officer said OK.
Peschke had previously mentioned that he gave Jennifer Crumbley a cigarette, so this is likely part of the prosecutors’ strategy to focus on her demeanor.
She also could be seen using her cellphone while she waited for the officer to return.
Friend moves away
- 3:24 p.m. Tuesday
The officer asked if the shooter had friends.
Jennifer Crumbley replied that he doesn’t have a lot of friends. She said his best friend was sent away.
‘He’s a good kid’
- 3:22 p.m. Tuesday
“He’s a good kid,” she said. “He doesn’t do anything, he just stays at the house and loves animals.”
The officer said he didn’t necessarily think the shooter was a bad kid.
“He’s never exerted any kind of anger,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “I don’t get it. I don’t get what happened.”
Talking about guns
- 3:21 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley said the other guns they own were still at the home, including BB guns.
Jennifer Crumbley told the officer it was a 9 mm that was used at the school. She said they just bought it. She called it a “SIG something.”
“You just bought it?” the officer said. She said yes.
She told him the other gun in the house was a 22-caliber and that her husband would know exactly what type of gun.
Morning meeting at school
- 3:18 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley told the officer about the meeting they had at the school that morning.
“We left the school, I went back to work, and this started happening,” Jennifer Crumbley said.
She said that her son told them he was sorry at the meeting and that he was dealing with a lot of stress. She mentioned the death of the dog.
Questioning about gun box being on bed
- 3:17 p.m. Tuesday
The officer asked her about why the gun box was on the bed. Jennifer Crumbley explained that her husband had come home to check for the guns.
She also mentioned the disturbing images drawn on a math worksheet.
“He’s never been in trouble,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “He’s never done anything. He’s a good kid.
“My son just ruined his life. I’ll never see him again.”
Jennifer Crumbley started crying and saying, “I’m not going to see him,” when the officer asked about her son’s age.
Finding gun gone
- 3:15 p.m. Tuesday
The officer appeared to ask Jennifer Crumbley about the fight from the previous night, but she said he went to school in the morning just like normal.
Jennifer Crumbley told the officer that when they found out there was an active shooter at the school, her husband rushed home and found the gun was missing. She said that’s when they went to the substation.
“We just got back from that,” Jennifer Crumbley said.
Telling officers about bedrooms
- 3:12 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley told the officer she was handcuffed at the front door.
“Has anybody told you what was going on?” an officer said.
She said she was just at the substation and she knows what he did.
The officer said they needed to search the house for evidence and she said “that’s fine.”
She told officers which rooms belonged to the shooter and which was the parents’ room.
“His bedroom got so out of control that we moved him to the guest room,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “It got out of control and I haven’t gotten a chance to clean it yet.”
She told the officer that her son doesn’t own a firearm, but her husband does. He asked if she’s seen that box, and she said she didn’t have a chance to see it.
Jennifer Crumbley asks why she’s in back of cop car
- 3:06 p.m. Tuesday
“I know my son is the one that shot at the school so I’m not quite sure why we’re in the back of a cop car,” Jennifer Crumbley said.
The officer said all he knew is they were detaining her. She asked to have the air on in the back of the car.
Jennifer Crumbley tells officer she was at police station
- 3:05 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley got in the back of the police car at 2:56 p.m. Nov. 30, 2021, and told the officer, “We were just out at the station.”
In-car video of police conversation
- 3:02 p.m. Tuesday
Prosecution is playing a 49-minute video showing a conversation between Peschke and Jennifer Crumbley.
McDonald said prosecutors are showing the entire video because even when there isn’t conversation, the jury can observe Jennifer Crumbley.
Penschke interaction with Jennifer Crumbley
- 3 p.m. Tuesday
Peschke said Jennifer Crumbley was put in the back of a patrol car. That’s when he had his first interaction with her.
“I advised her she wasn’t in custody and I originally jumped in the driver’s seat, but then I walked around to the back seat and opened her door,” Peschke said. “She’s not in custody. I just wanted to have a conversation with her.”
Peschke said Jennifer Crumbley told him she preferred to have the door open.
The conversation lasted about 49 minutes, according to McDonald. Peschke said there might have been breaks near the end of the conversation and he wasn’t always standing right next to the house.
She asked for a cigarette and for her phone, so Peschke said he gave them to him.
Guns drawn at house
- 2:59 p.m. Tuesday
Peschke said he had his gun drawn, and he’s pretty sure everybody else did, too. He said that’s “normal,” and reiterated that there had been an active shooting and they weren’t sure what they were walking into
He said he had no idea whether the Crumbleys had gone to a substation at that point.
Jennifer Crumbley at house
- 2:57 p.m. Tuesday
Peschke said he saw a man walking out by the awning and a woman coming out on the porch. He later learned that woman was Jennifer Crumbley, he said.
Search warrant details
- 2:55 p.m. Tuesday
Peschke said normally when he enters a house for a search warrant, guns are drawn because officers don’t know what could be inside, including animals or people.
Then, once they check inside the house to make sure nobody is inside, Peschke said officers typically leave and stay in the area until a search warrant is approved.
Crumbley household
- 2:53 p.m. Tuesday
After he cleared the pool area, Peschke was told to go to the Crumbley household. He said he was told to go to the shooter’s house, preserve it for evidence, and that a search warrant was being drafted.
Peschke said he went in his car, and it took only a couple of minutes to get there. There were three other officers in his car with him.
Responding to shooting
- 2:51 p.m. Tuesday
Peschke said he learned from his partner that there had been a shooting at Oxford High School.
“I grabbed a vest, I got in my car, and I left for Oxford High,” Peschke said.
He went into through the entrance by the pool, and spoke to other authorities. They did a search of the pool area and reported to command before searching hallways in the area to see if there were any survivors, witnesses, or victims.
“I had heard on the way over the radio that the shooter was in custody,” Peschke said. “I knew that there had been one or two homicides at that point and injuries -- I wasn’t sure how many.”
Witness: Sgt. Matthew Peschke
- 2:49 p.m. Tuesday
Sgt. Matthew Peschke has been with the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office for 20 years. He said he was at the Pontiac substation at the time of the Oxford High School shooting.
Judge calls in juror, then speaks about lunch
- 2:46 p.m. Tuesday
Judge Matthews called in the juror to make sure they can still be fair and impartial. The audio and live stream were cut, so those proceedings were not heard.
Once the court went back on the record, Matthews asked the jury not to walk down to the cafeteria because it creates potential for someone to approach them.
Photos from search warrant
- 2:38 p.m. Tuesday
Prosecutors showed dozens of photos from the two search warrants at the Crumbley household -- first on the evening of the shooting and one from the day after the shooting.
The photos from the first search warrant showed targets, ammunition, and a whiskey bottle in one of the rooms of the shooter. Apparently, the shooter had two bedrooms inside the home.
Photos from outside also showed a BB gun and CO2 cartridges that were expelled from that BB gun in the snow.
The next day, officials went back and took more photos. That’s where the 29 additional pictures came from.
Note from juror
- 2:26 p.m. Tuesday
One juror left Matthews a note saying that he or she might have a connection to someone who works for the former employer of Jennifer Crumbley. The name of that workplace was spoken during questioning.
The judge said they will clarify with that juror after the break that they don’t know anyone who would jeopardize their ability to be impartial in this case.
McDonald said prosecutors have made a concerted effort not to say the name of the business, but that Smith said the name. Smith clarified that she didn’t violate an order, and McDonald said that’s not what she was implying.
Court break
- 2:22 p.m. Tuesday
Prosecutors said the next witness would be a lengthy testimony, so the judge agreed to take a 10-minute break.
Adam Stoyek testimony ends
- 2:21 p.m. Tuesday
The questioning of Stoyek ended.
Redirect: Adam Stoyek
- 2:19 p.m. Tuesday
Keast asked why police approached the hoome with guns drawn.
Stoyek said they had come from the scene of a school shooting and they weren’t sure exactly what they were going to find at the house.
Gun placement
- 2:14 p.m. Tuesday
The case for the SIG Sauer gun that was used in the shooter was on the bed next to an empty box of bullets when Stoyek went inside the home, Smith clarified. He agreed.
She asked if James Crumbley had gone to the house and discovered that the gun was gone after the shooting. He said he wasn’t sure, but he observed the box on the bed. He doesn’t know how or when it was placed there.
Smith clarified that the other two guns were found in a gun safe, unloaded, in a cabinet. Stoyek said that’s correct. He said ammunition was found “in the dresser area behind it,” but not inside the safe.
Jennifer Crumbley coming out of house
- 2:12 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said the first time he saw Jennifer Crumbley, she was being called out of the house by police officers. He said that she complied.
Police officers had their guns drawn as she was called out of the house, Stoyek said. He said it was more than one gun.
Cross examination: Detective Adam Stoyek
- 2:11 p.m. Tuesday
Smith began her cross examination of Stoyek.
Second search morning after shooting
Police returned to the Crumbleys’ home the day after the shooting and performed a second search, according to Stoyek.
Here are all the photos that were presented by prosecutors from that search:
More photos
- 2:03 p.m. Tuesday
Here are more photos shown by prosecutors from inside the house. These were all taken the evening of the shooting, police said.
Among these photos are BB gun bullets in the snow, a gun case in a closet, an empty gun case with the gun lock in it, and video games.
Items found in shooter’s bedroom
- 1:51 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said these photos show additional items that were found in the shooter’s bedroom.
Photos from master bedroom
- 1:50 p.m. Tuesday
These photos were taken by police of the master bedroom.
Stoyek said the two remaining guns owned by the Crumbleys were found in the gray cabinet, and police knew where to look because they were told by James Crumbley.
He told them the combination to the gun safe was “000,” which is the default code for the case.
Second bedroom
- 1:48 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said the shooter had a second bedroom inside the home. He confirmed these photos were taken from that room:
The prosecution also posted a photo of the bathroom.
More photos from bedroom
- 1:47 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek confirmed more photos shown by the prosecution of the shooter’s bedroom.
Photos of shooter’s bedroom
- 1:44 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said the shooter had two bedrooms. He said pictures were taken before the search warrant was executed.
Keast said this means the photos show the “natural state of the home,” and Stoyek agreed.
Stoyek described several photographs of the shooter’s bedroom, including used targets from the shooting range that had been hung up.
Preserving evidence
- 1:39 p.m. Tuesday
When he arrived, Jennifer Crumbley and her husband were being escorted out of the house by deputies, Stoyek said.
He said they were sent to preserve evidence pending the receipt of a search warrant. They wanted to make sure no evidence was removed from the house before they could search inside.
They did an initial sweep to make sure nobody was hiding inside or where they shouldn’t be.
Stoyek sent to Crumbley household
- 1:38 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said after the shooter had been taken into custody, he was eventually sent to the Crumbley household.
They didn’t know if the house was going to be occupied. He went with his partner and two other detectives. Two deputies were also there, and then ATF Special Agent Brett Brandon.
Removing students, teachers from classrooms
- 1:37 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said he and his partner went to the school and helped escort some students outside.
They originally went toward the gymnasium. Students and teachers were still inside some of the rooms and had to be talked into opening the doors, he said.
Stoyek learns about shooting
- 1:36 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek said he was working on Nov. 30, 2021, when he saw the call come up that there was a shooting at Oxford High School.
Witness: Adam Stoyek
- 1:34 p.m. Tuesday
Stoyek is a detective with the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office. He has been a detective for almost four years. He works at the Pontiac substation.
Locked out
- 1:32 p.m. Tuesday
Keast asked if Jennifer Crumbley told Holland that she locked her son out or if her son locked himself out. Smith objected.
Matthews asked Holland to clarify. Holland said she doesn’t know, only that Jennifer Crumbley told him, “He was locked out.”
“But I don’t know how that happened,” Holland said. “To the best that I can recall, that, ‘He was locked out.’”
Redirect: Amanda Holland
- 1:31 p.m. Tuesday
Keast clarified that that Holland told Jennifer Crumbley she thought the drawings on the math worksheet were “scary.”
She said that Jennifer Crumbley’s response was to agree that the drawings were scary.
Information about shooting
- 1:30 p.m. Tuesday
Smith said it’s clear that Jennifer Crumbley was “very surprised and shocked” that a school shooting was unfolding when it happened. Holland agreed.
Smith said Holland has much more information about the shooting now than she did when it happened at the time.
“It’s fair to say over time, you’re looking back at Nov. 30 with more information than you had at the time when the event unfolded,” Smith said.
Holland agreed that she has had no interaction with Jennifer Crumbley since the shooting, but has had interaction with the prosecution.
Sarcasm
- 1:28 p.m. Tuesday
Smith asked if Jennifer Crumbley was being sarcastic when she said she was a failure of a parent. Holland said that’s the way she took it.
When Smith asked if Jennifer Crumbley was at least expressing some kind of concern about her son, Holland said she wasn’t sure. Smith read some of Holland’s testimony from a previous court date when she said Jennifer Crumbley was concerned about the drawing.
Holland said she was just trying to portray how she believed she felt, but she wasn’t specifically told that there were concerns.
Math worksheet drawing
- 1:26 p.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that Holland didn’t expect from seeing the math worksheet that there would be a school shooting or a major tragedy based on that drawing. Holland said not just based on that drawing.
Smith clarified that Holland knew Jennifer Crumbley had returned to work after the meeting about the drawing, and Holland agreed.
Social media posts
- 1:25 p.m. Tuesday
Holland said she doesn’t recall seeing photos of Jennifer Crumbley’s son or holidays on social media.
Smith asked if she had seen pictures of the Jennifer Crumbley’s home. Holland said yes she saw pictures when the Crumbleys were having work done on their house.
Holland said she knew that the Crumbleys went camping and on vacation with their son, but she doesn’t specifically remember seeing photos.
“She may have posted it, but I didn’t see it,” Holland said.
Mother-son time
- 1:22 p.m. Tuesday
Smith said Holland previously testified that she gave Jennifer Crumbley advice to spent some mother-son time with her son. Smith clarified that Holland doesn’t know Jennifer Crumbley or the shooter well enough to have a deep understanding of their relationship. Holland agreed.
“So any advice you gave to Mrs. Crumbley ... you don’t have experience about a mother and a son of a teenager, correct?” Smith asked.
Holland said she is a mother but not of a teenage boy.
Shooter being locked out
- 1:21 p.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that when Holland spoke to Jennifer Crumbley about a fight that included her son being locked out of the house, Holland doesn’t know the circumstances surrounding why the shooter was locked out.
Holland said that’s correct. Smith said the shooter could have been locked out because he forget keys or something, and Holland said she doesn’t know the details.
‘Not friends’
- 1:19 p.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that Holland previously testified that she and Jennifer Crumbley were not friends. Holland agreed.
Cross examination: Amanda Holland
- 1:17 p.m. Tuesday
Smith began her cross examination of Holland.
Reaching out after shooting
- 1:16 p.m. Tuesday
Holland said she reached out to Jennifer Crumbley afterward to say she hoped everything was OK. But she did not receive a response.
Call about school shooting
- 1:14 p.m. Tuesday
Holland said Jennifer Crumbley got the call about the school shooting and “very abruptly” jumped up and ran out the door.
Jennifer Crumbley told her boss what was happening before leaving, Holland testified.
Holland agreed that was around 1:18 p.m. Nov. 30, 2021.
After meeting about math worksheet
- 1:14 p.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley came back from the meeting and said, “I feel like a failure as a parent,” Holland said. She said Jennifer Crumbley had a sarcastic personality.
Jennifer Crumbley went more into the detail of the drawing while they talked, Holland said.
“We talked about it and I remember telling her that it was scary and maybe she should spend some time with him to make him feel better,” Holland said.
Holland told Jennifer Crumbley that she would have brought her son home if she was in the same situation, according to the testimony.
Math drawing phone call
- 1:11 p.m. Tuesday
When Jennifer Crumbley received the phone call about her son’s math worksheet, Holland said she was nearby.
Jennifer Crumbley said she was leaving and showed Holland the drawing on the math worksheet.
“I looked at it and I thought it was scary,” Holland said. “I thought it was intimidating, the pictures that were on there.”
Holland said Jennifer Crumbley didn’t seem as worried about the drawings but she “wasn’t blowing it off or anything.”
Past experiences
- 1:08 p.m. Tuesday
Holland said Jennifer Crumbley would occasionally talk about her son. She said she was aware that Jennifer Crumbley was afraid that her son might be lonely.
One time, Jennifer Crumbley mentioned that her son was “hearing things in the house,” Holland testified.
Day of shooting
- 1:06 p.m. Tuesday
Holland said on the morning of the shooting, she talked briefly to Jennifer Crumbley when they got to work just after 9 a.m.
“She just mentioned that they had a fight,” she said. “I’m not sure who initiated it or ask questions.”
Holland said Jennifer Crumbley told her that there was an argument and she had locked the shooter out of the house.
Witness: Amanda Holland
- 1 p.m. Tuesday
Amanda Holland is a former coworker of Jennifer Crumbley who worked with the company at the time of the shooting. She said she was there for five years and worked for Andrew Smith for four years. She said she worked with Jennifer Crumbley for roughly two years.
They worked in the same corner together.
Holland said she worked with Jennifer Crumbley but they didn’t socialize outside of work. They followed each other on social media.
Boss says Jennifer Crumbley could have left work
- 12:47 p.m. Tuesday
Prosecutors questioned Jennifer Crumbley’s boss to make it clear that she would have been allowed to leave work to address a problem with her son.
Witness testimony from Ejak and Hopkins -- the dean of students and an Oxford High School counselor -- suggested that Jennifer Crumbley and her husband didn’t want to be inconvenienced by taking their son home from school.
Both parents also said they wouldn’t be able to get him same-day mental health counseling because they had to work.
Testimony from Jennifer Crumbley’s boss will likely be used by the prosecution to suggest she would have been allowed to miss some time at work if she needed to immediately address these issues.
Smith will likely argue that while a boss can say it’s OK to leave or miss time, that’s not always the actual mindset inside a workplace.
Jennifer Crumbley’s demeanor after shooting
- 12:40 p.m. Tuesday
Smith will highlight that Jennifer Crumbley’s boss described her as “frantic” as she left work when she learned that there had been a shooting at her son’s school.
Part of the prosecution’s strategy is to show Jennifer Crumbley’s body language throughout the day of the shooting. They claim she acted indifferent and left “abruptly” during the meeting the morning of the shooting. They also showed her sitting with crossed legs and scrolling on her cellphone during the police interview following the shooting.
But Jennifer Crumbley’s boss said he could hear the “commotion” from his office as she scrambled to leave. He said she told him she was trying to get to her son’s school.
Smith will likely point to this information to prove that her client wasn’t indifferent and that her reaction to the shooting shouldn’t be labeled as “right” or “wrong.”
Live updates note: ‘Smith’
- 12:31 p.m. Tuesday
Now that testimony from Andrew Smith has completed, “Smith” will be used to refer only to defense attorney Shannon Smith for the rest of this article (i.e. for the updates posted above this one).
If any of Andrew Smith’s testimony is used above, he will be referenced as “Andrew Smith.”
Who should have brought up gun?
- 12:24 p.m. Tuesday
One of the major points of contention during Ejak’s testimony was that the Crumbley parents didn’t tell school officials during their meeting on the morning of the shooting that they had guns at home.
Ejak said if he knew that the shooter had access to weapons, that would have elevated the situation to a point where he, as the dean of students, could have taken action.
The prosecution is clearly asserting that the parents had a responsibility to disclose to school officials that they were gun owners.
The defense will likely point to Ejak’s extensive commentary on how common guns were for families in Oxford High School and question why he didn’t ask the parents if they had guns.
Ejak said students would often go hunting with parents during late-start school days, so they were reminded not to have weapons in their cars or wear camouflage clothing into school. He said students would even take pictures with guns at home before school events, such as the homecoming dance.
Defense attorney Shannon Smith will likely argue that given how common guns are in the community, shouldn’t a situation like this, in which a student was drawing a gun on a worksheet, prompt school officials to ask whether a student has access to weapons?
Prosecutors will respond that parents are the experts on their own children, so they should have offered that information without being asked.
Plan to return from lunch
- 12:15 p.m. Tuesday
Matthews asked the jurors to return in time for proceedings to resume at 12:45 p.m. She said they have already “lost some time” today.
Break for lunch
- 12:07 p.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith’s testimony ended and the court took a break for lunch at this time.
Jennifer Crumbley’s job
- 12:06 p.m. Tuesday
Shannon Smith said as far as Andrew Smith knew, Jennifer Crumbley valued her job, was good at her job, and wanted to keep her job. Andrew Smith agreed.
Text messages
- 12:05 p.m. Tuesday
Shannon Smith clarified that Jennifer Crumbley never asked Andrew Smith to delete text messages.
Shannon Smith said Andrew Smith was sending supporting messages to Jennifer Crumbley throughout the conversation. He also saw her leave the office in a panic and heard her reacting strongly to what was happening.
Health insurance costs
- 12:02 p.m. Tuesday
Shannon Smith clarified that Jennifer Crumbley’s insurance was $200 biweekly, and adding another person would have made it around $500 per month. Andrew Smith said his understanding is that it would cost more to add more people.
He said he was not aware whether James Crumbley or the shooter were covered on another health plan.
Jennifer Crumbley as employee
- 12:01 p.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith agreed Jennifer Crumbley was a hard worker, a diligent worker, and someone the company could count on.
She would sometimes take advantage of the flexibility of scheduling, Andrew Smith confirmed.
Parenting concerns
- 12 p.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said he never personally had any concerns about Jennifer Crumbley’s parenting.
Leaving work for school
- 11:58 a.m. Tuesday
Shannon Smith asked if Jennifer Crumbley was a parent who was constantly having to leave work to go to her child’s school. Andrew Smith said he doesn’t recall any other instances of that happening.
Day of shooting
- 11:58 a.m. Tuesday
Shannon Smith clarified that Jennifer Crumbley appeared frantic when she learned about the shooting at the school. Andrew Smith agreed.
He also agreed that Jennifer Crumbley mentioned at work that she planned to get her son counseling. He said she was worried about her son at that time.
Cross Examination: Andrew Smith
- 11:57 a.m. Tuesday
Shannon Smith began her cross examination of Andrew Smith.
Why texts were deleted
- 11:56 a.m. Tuesday
Two or three days after the shooting, Jennifer Crumbley’s employment was terminated, according to Andrew Smith.
He said Jennifer Crumbley has not talked to him about why many of the text messages to him were deleted.
End of conversation
- 11:55 a.m. Tuesday
“I need my job,” Jennifer Crumbley said at 3:39 p.m. the day of the shooting. “Please don’t just me for what my son did.”
“I can’t even begin to understand what you’re going through,” Andrew Smith replied. “I’m praying for you. I asked Carolyn to text you some attorney recommendations.”
“They are taking my cellphone,” Jennifer Crumbley said.
Request for lawyer
- 11:54 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said he received another phone call. Jennifer Crumbley told him she had been to the police station and she asked him to recommend a lawyer. He told her he would ask the corporate counsel for a recommendation.
He said the people in the office were closely watching the news
He left a little early that day to get home to his family because there were so many emotions.
More text messages
- 11:52 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said he stayed with the HR director as more text messages came in. The texts were shortly after the original 1:23 p.m. text message.
“Omg Andy he’s going to kill himself he must be the shooter,” she said. “I need a lawyer at substation with police. (The shooter’s name) did it.”
Andrew Smith said he was shocked, afraid, and sad. He didn’t know what to think at this time.
Andrew Smith said he has practiced law but not criminal law.
Full text message conversation
- 11:49 a.m. Tuesday
McDonald went through the text conversation between Jennifer Crumbley and Andrew Smith after she had left work.
“The gun is gone and so are the bullets,” Jennifer Crumbley later texted him at 1:23 p.m.
Andrew Smith said he didn’t know anything about a gun, so the text alarmed him. He went to bring up this issue with a human resources director.
“I’m praying everything is OK,” Andrew Smith said.
Andrew Smith said Jennifer Crumbley called him and he heard sirens in the background. She told him she was trying to get to the school. He believes she said the family gun was missing, so he and the HR director told her to call police.
She told them that her husband had already called police. Andrew Smith said he had never met James Crumbley.
Jennifer Crumbley leaves work after shooting
- 11:48 a.m. Tuesday
Smith said around 1 p.m. that day, he heard a “loud commotion” during a meeting outside his office.
He heard “yelling, screaming” outside in the hall. He said he looked outside and saw Jennifer Crumbley running out of her office. He learned there was an active shooter at the school, and he told her to go.
Boss says Jennifer Crumbley would have been allowed to leave
- 11:46 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said Jennifer Crumbley would have been allowed to have her son at the office that day, but he was not there.
Jennifer Crumbley had a meeting later in the day, but it was “not at all” a required meeting, according to Andrew Smith.
He said he didn’t know that she had been instructed to get him counseling that day.
Andrew Smith said there wasn’t an upcoming deadline or major project that absolutely needed to be done that day, but, “I’m sure she had a busy schedule.”
“It would have been no problem at all” if she had asked to leave that day, Andrew Smith said. He also said it wouldn’t have mattered whether she had any vacation time remaining, he would have allowed her to leave.
What Andrew Smith knew about shooter
- 11:45 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said he knew that the shooter was in school and that he was an avid bowling.
He said he knew the shooter had had a part-time job and that they had gone on some vacations.
He said he didn’t recall hearing much more about her son.
Andrew Smith on morning of shooting
- 11:40 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith got the first text from Jennifer Crumbley at 10:05 a.m. the day of the shooting. She told him she had to go to her son’s school for a meeting. She also sent him the photo of the math worksheet her son had drawn on.
“I have to go to my kids school,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “Counselor just called and this is what I’m dealing with. I’ll be back by 11:30-12 at the latest.”
Andrew Smith said Jennifer Crumbley was good about letting him know when she needed to leave work for some reason.
He said he recalled seeing Jennifer Crumbley around noon in the copy area of the office. He asked if she was doing OK and she mentioned that she had to get her son counseling. He said she seemed down and told him that the shooter was sad because of a dog dying.
Jennifer Crumbley said something about feeling like she was failing her son, Andrew Smith testified. He said he told her he was glad that she was getting her counseling.
Andrew Smith said he and Jennifer Crumbley didn’t have a friendship and they didn’t socialize outside of work.
Text messages deleted
- 11:37 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said he was driving around 10 a.m. on his way to work the morning of the shooting, Nov. 30, 2021. He received a text message from Jennifer Crumbley.
These are text messages from Jennifer Crumbley’s phone, McDonald said.
“I need my job,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “Please don’t judge me for what my son did.”
“I can’t even begin to understand what you’re going through,” Andrew Smith replied. “I’m praying for you. I asked Carolyn to text you some attorney recommendations.”
“They are taking my cellphone,” Jennifer Crumbley said.
Andrew Smith said some messages were missing. McDonald pulled up messages that were given to authorities from his own phone, and Andrew Smith agreed that that was the full conversation.
Health insurance
- 11:35 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith confirmed that Jennifer Crumbley was enrolled in health insurance for herself through the company.
Work culture
- 11:34 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said his company is very flexible when employees need to deal with issues with children.
“We’re very family friendly -- family first-type atmosphere,” Smith said.
Smith on work schedule
- 11:32 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith said Jennifer Crumbley was a director who was responsible to work a 40-hour workweek. Her schedule was “somewhat set” with some flexibility.
He believes she would come in slightly early and leave slightly early.
She would work remotely on some occasions.
Witness: Andrew Smith
- 11:30 a.m. Tuesday
Andrew Smith is the COO of a real estate company and a lawyer. His primary work is not practicing law.
He’s responsible for the operation of real estate properties. He’s in charge of about 700 employees. He was Jennifer Crumbley’s boss at the time of the shooting.
Andrew Smith was Jennifer Crumbley’s direct supervisor when she was a marketing director.
Questioning of Ejak ends
- 11:29 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak’s testimony ended and the prosecution brought in another witness.
Smith clarifies
- 11:28 a.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that Ejak did not ask the parents if they had a weapon.
Parents as experts on their child
- 11:28 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said school officials rely on parents to provide information on their students. He said students are the experts on their child.
Shooter staying in school
- 11:27 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said when he, Hopkins, the parents, and the shooter met, the primary decision-makers on whether or not the shooter remain in school were the parents.
Shooter’s access to weapon
- 11:26 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said if he knew the shooter had access to a gun when he saw the drawing, he would have heightened the issue.
“It would have completely changed the process that we followed,” Ejak said.
Information unknown to Ejak
- 11:25 a.m. Tuesday
Keast clarified that Ejak did not determine with the information he had on the morning of the shooting that the shooter was a threat. Ejak said yes, the shooter was not believed to be a threat.
Ejak said Jennifer Crumbley did not tell them about the shooter hallucinating, being depressed, or owning his own gun.
Keast asked if it’s important to know that student had access to a weapon, Ejak said yes.
Redirect: Nicholas Ejak
- 11:24 a.m. Tuesday
Keast began his redirect of Ejak.
Parents’ level of concern
- 11:23 a.m. Tuesday
Smith asked if all parents react differently to their child being brought down to the office. Ejak said it depends on the situation and what the meeting is about.
Smith said when parents come to the school, they come to get information about what happened from the school officials. Ejak said the parents are also experts on their child.
Mental health treatment
- 11:22 a.m. Tuesday
Smith said Jennifer Crumbley was receptive to the idea of getting mental health treatment, even though it might not be that day.
Ejak said yes, it was his understanding that she would do so within 48 hours, before Hopkins followed up.
Mental health status
- 11:21 a.m. Tuesday
Smith asked if there were any previous records about the shooter needing mental health treatment before that day. Ejak said not that he’s aware of.
Previous statement during deposition
- 11:20 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said he thought it was strange that the Crumbleys didn’t take their son home from school on the morning of the shooting.
On Sept. 14, 2022, Ejak testified in a deposition, Smith said. He was asked if he found it strange and out of the ordinary that the shooter wasn’t brought home.
“No, there would have been no reason for him to go home,” is what he said, according to Smith. Ejak said the context is important in that questioning, because it was in regard to being sent home for a disciplinary issue.
Guns and Oxford High School
- 11:18 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said there were instances where students went hunting before late starts to school on Wednesdays. School didn’t start until 10:20 a.m. on those dates. Students could go out hunting with parents in the morning.
There were reminders by the school not to bring guns to school, even in vehicles.
He said students would also pose for prom or homecoming pictures with guns at home.
Ejak said it wasn’t uncommon to see students drawing guns.
No threat detected
- 11:15 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said he didn’t believe the shooter was a threat to the school. He said he has handled certain other situations were handled differently where he saw signs of a threat.
When those situations were deemed to be threatening, students were forced to leave the school, Smith clarified. Ejak agreed.
Ejak confirmed again that there were no signs of a threat detected with the shooter.
This was the point Smith was trying to get to through this whole line of questioning: That there are occasions when students are forced to leave the school by school officials, and this wasn’t one of them. In other words, suggesting the parents weren’t the only ones who didn’t perceive the actual threat the shooter posed.
Sharing information with parents
- 11:14 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said all the information was shared with the Crumbleys during the meeting, including the information in the emails.
No sign of neglect?
- 11:13 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak agreed that he is obligated to report if he believes that parents are being neglectful of their child. He said he didn’t report that the Crumbley parents were neglecting their child, but he also said he didn’t know all the information that they were withholding from him.
Smith said there were incidents that weren’t disclosed by the school to the Crumbleys.
Taking students out of school
- 11:11 a.m. Tuesday
Smith asked if there are situations where students would be made to leave school for the day. Ejak agreed. She clarified that the student would be sent home if they had COVID or were sick, and that parents couldn’t just say that they’re not coming.
Ejak said sometimes parents can’t pick their child up. Smith asked if parents can be told that their child has a disciplinary issue and they must take them home from school. Ejak said he doesn’t have power to force parents to take their children out of school unless there’s a legal issue.
He said there was no disciplinary issue that rose to the level of a suspension.
Counseling recommendation
- 11:08 a.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that Ejak agreed with Hopkins that the Crumbleys should get counseling for their son -- that day, if possible.
Ejak said he can confirm that Hopkins said he would follow up with the parents to make sure steps had been taken to get the shooter help.
Meeting details
- 11:07 a.m. Tuesday
Smith noted that it wasn’t just one parent who came for the meeting -- they both came.
Smith clarified that this was the first time the Crumbleys had been called to the school to meet with their son. Ejak said it’s the only time he was aware of.
Ejak said he didn’t know Jennifer Crumbley before the meeting.
Warning signs
- 11:05 a.m. Tuesday
Smith said shooter had no disciplinary action on “Power Schools,” which is used to show grades and notes to parents. Ejak agreed.
Ejak also agreed that the shooter had at least average grades and regular attendance.
Smith asked if Ejak would agree that when you looked at the shooter’s profile before the shooting, there were no red flags. He said that’s correct.
Smith was trying to show that Jennifer Crumbley couldn’t have been reasonably expected to know the threat her son posed because there weren’t obvious warning signs.
No discipline
- 11:03 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak agreed that all of the incidents with the shooter leading up to the shooting were minor violations that needed to be discussed as to whether they required any action at all. That includes watching the violent video, researching bullets, and drawing on the math worksheet.
Smith asked if he took into account the context of what he was understanding, and that helped him conclude that it wasn’t a disciplinary issue. Ejak said that’s correct.
Violent video
- 11 a.m. Tuesday
Smith confirmed that Ejak did not find it necessary to watch the violent video that the shooter had been seen watching in class. He said it didn’t rise to the occasion of discipline because most teenagers watch videos, shows, and movies that have violence.
“It sounds to me like during school, Oxford High School allows more freedom that I experienced,” Smith said. “It was OK that he was watching videos during school?”
Ejak said it’s not OK, but it doesn’t rise to the level of suspension. He said they needed to consider how it would be handled moving forward.
Mental health concerns superseded possible discipline
- 10:58 a.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that Ejak was aware of what the shooter had drawn during class in math. Ejak said the mental health concerns superseded any possible disciplinary issues.
Jennifer Crumbley was told that her son is not facing trouble, but that school officials were concerned about her son’s mental health, Ejak confirmed.
Previous work on ‘violent side’
- 10:56 a.m. Tuesday
Smith brought up the email that the teacher sent about the shooter looking up bullets, specifically highlighting the part where she said, “I’m also noticing that some of his previous work that he’s completed from earlier in the year leans a bit toward the violent side.”
Smith asked Ejak if he looked into that “previous work,” and Ejak said it was not necessary because another staff member had already taken care of that issue.
Smith asked if Ejak ever told Jennifer Crumbley that there was indication from a teacher that her son had previous work that was on the violent side. He said that was discussed at the Nov. 30 meeting, but he didn’t have the materials to show her.
Disciplinary action
- 10:53 a.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that there was never any disciplinary action necessary during his interactions with the shooter.
“There was nothing that required discipline, no,” Ejak said.
He said even researching bullets doesn’t rise to the level of discipline.
Carrying backpack
- 10:50 a.m. Tuesday
Smith clarified that the shooter didn’t appear nervous at all when Ejak held his backpack. Ejak agreed.
Ejak said the shooter didn’t seem worried at all about the dean of students holding his backpack.
Smith was trying to show that even a school official with a master’s degree and relevant training didn’t know from handling the backpack that there was a threat, so how should her client know.
Cross examination: Nicholas Ejak
- 10:49 a.m. Tuesday
Smith began her cross examination of Ejak.
Meeting ‘ended abruptly’
- 10:48 a.m. Tuesday
“It sort of seemed like it ended abruptly,” “It was a very short meeting. ... Once it was determined that they were not going to take him home, it was stated that he would have to walk home and be home by himself if he was to go home. That’s when Shawn responded that he didn’t really want (the shooter) home by himself.”
Ejak said Hopkins thought it would be best for the shooter to remain in school, rather than home by himself.
Leaving shooter in school
- 10:47 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said he thought it was odd when the Crumbleys didn’t agree to take their son from school.
“Typically when it’s recommended, parents take their children to seek out mental health assistance immediately,” Ejak said.
Taking shooter home from school
- 10:46 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said Hopkins expressed that the shooter should be taken home from school, but Jennifer Crumbley said, “We can’t do that. We have to work.”
“It seemed a little odd based on my experiences in similar meetings when students are being examined for mental health,” Ejak said.
He said he’s probably been in 5-10 of these types of meetings throughout his time in education.
Backpack wasn’t searched
- 10:44 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said the backpack was never searched. He said there was never any “reasonable suspicion” to do so.
By law, he needed reasonable suspicion, such as a report that someone had a weapon, vape pen, or other suspicious item, in order to search the backpack. He said the shooter didn’t show any nervous behavior while Ejak was in possession of his backpack.
Confirmation of recent issues
- 10:42 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said throughout the conversation, the parents confirmed some of the reasons the shooter cited for being sad, such as a dog’s death, a grandmother’s death, and a close friend moving away.
The shooter also said that he was very interested in designing video games, and that that had led to an argument with his parents the night before, Ejak said. They told him he should focus more on his academics, Ejak said.
The shooter struggled with his academics during COVID, and his parents felt he should spend more time focusing on his studies than video game design, according to Ejak.
Meeting details
- 10:40 a.m. Tuesday
When Hopkins arrived, the meeting with the parents had already started, Ejak said. The edited version of the math worksheet was on the table, and Jennifer Crumbley had been sent the original worksheet, according to the testimony.
Jennifer Crumbley had been handed a packet of counseling resources that the school provides. Ejak said he’s been in meetings in the past in which that type of information is provided to parents. He’s not sure if same-day appointments were available in that packet.
Expectations for meeting
- 10:39 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said his expectation was that the shooter would leave the meeting with his parents and “get some help” that afternoon.
Backpack retrieved from classroom
- 10:38 a.m. Tuesday
After that conversation ended and before the parents arrived, Ejak went to the classroom and retrieved the shooter’s backpack because classes were about to change.
He brought the backpack to Hopkins’ office and gave it to the shooter.
Phone call with Jennifer Crumbley
- 10:37 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak was in the office when Hopkins called Jennifer Crumbley. He said a portion of the conversation was on speaker phone.
During the conversation, Hopkins forwarded the email to Jennifer Crumbley to show her the math worksheet drawing, Ejak said.
“I believe she said, ‘What were you thinking? Why did you do this?’” Ejak said, referring to what Jennifer Crumbley said to her son over speakerphone.
Counseling, not discipline
- 10:35 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said his first response to seeing the drawings on the math worksheet was that he needed to get the counselor because this student might need to “get some help.”
He said the words stood out to him. He wasn’t viewing the situation through a lens of discipline, but of needing counseling.
Ejak said he went to get Hopkins, the shooter’s counselor, and Hopkins already knew what he was coming to discuss because he had received notification from a teacher.
“Mr. Hopkins’ response was, ‘I’ll go get him from class right now,’” Ejak said.
When Hopkins and the shooter returned to Hopkins’ office, Ejak sat in on their meeting and listened as Hopkins spoke.
Ejak said he wanted to be an additional adult for support and also in case there was any behavior that rose to the level of discipline.
Ejak said nothing happened that made his view change on whether there was any discipline necessary.
Email morning of shooting
- 10:31 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak received an email from a math teacher on Nov. 30, 2021, the day of the shooting, at 9:32 a.m.
Before this email, Ejak said he had discussed the shooter with the math teacher as she walked to the front office. She was hoping to discuss a student who had drawn inappropriate drawings on a piece of paper.
“She showed me an image (of the math worksheet drawings) on her cellphone,” Ejak said. He doesn’t remember exactly what time that happened, but it was before the email.
Ejak said the teacher wanted to share that a student had written “inappropriate things” on a paper.
“I noticed the name on the top which I recognized from the day before,” Ejak said. “My response to that was, ‘I need to get his counselor.’”
Ejak’s first email about shooter
- 10:27 a.m. Tuesday
Ejak said he didn’t have any interaction with the shooter before Nov. 29, 2021, the day before the shooting.
The first time he received any information about the shooter was when an English teacher sent him an email about the shooter researching bullets on his phone in school.
Ejak said he learned that there had been a meeting with the shooter and that it had ended.
“It wasn’t necessary that I do anything further,” Ejak said. “She did everything I would have done.”
Here is the email, as it was shown in court:
Witness: Nicholas Ejak
- 10:22 a.m. Tuesday
The first witness of Tuesday is Nicholas Ejak, who was the dean of students at Oxford High School at the time of the shooting. It was his first year with the district -- he said he had been in the position for about four months at the time of the shooting.
He was in charge of discipline for all students at the high school.
In the fall of 2021, Ejak said one of his primary jobs was to make sure students were wearing masks and had access to masks. He also dealt with attendance issues and put together a policy for returning from the COVID pandemic.
Leaving shooter alone
- 10:20 a.m. Tuesday
One theme that has emerged early in this trial is the question of whether or not the shooter should have been left alone the day of the shooting.
Jennifer Crumbley had plans to ride her horse after work on Nov. 30, 2021, but Facebook messages with Kira Pennock, the owner of the barn where the Crumbley horses were kept, reveal that Jennifer Crumbley planned to bring her son along after the meeting at the school about drawings on a math sheet.
She told Pennock that she needed to bring the shooter along because he shouldn’t be left home alone. Pennock responded that it might be good for him to spend time with a smaller horse.
Then, during Hopkins’ testimony, he said he believed after the meeting that the shooter should be taken out of school for the rest of the day to receive help. But when it was clear the parents weren’t going to take him out of school, Hopkins thought it would be best for the shooter to be with his peers.
He didn’t think he should be left alone at that time, based on his demeanor.
Audio cut briefly
- 10:16 a.m. Tuesday
Smith asked that audio be cut momentarily to discuss a logistical matter unrelated to the case for her client as the trial progresses later into the week.
Keast leaves to meet witness
- 10:12 a.m. Tuesday
Keast left the courtroom, likely to meet the day’s first witness when they arrive so the proceedings can begin.
Matthews wanted to start early on Tuesday because of Monday’s premature ending. But court will start almost two hours after she originally hoped to get going at 8:30 a.m.
Shorter lunch break?
- 10:08 a.m. Tuesday
Matthews said the jury members are all there and she’s going to ask them if a half-hour is long enough for lunch today.
Smith said it took her 25 minutes to get through the line Monday, but she could send someone ahead early if she gets notice.
It’s not clear if a shorter lunch break was confirmed, but it’s clear Matthews wants to make up for some lost time from this morning.
Witness just arrived
- 10:06 a.m. Tuesday
Keast said the prosecution’s first witness of the day just pulled in.
“Weren’t they supposed to be here at 8:30?” Matthews asked.
Keast said yes, but they came from out of town.
Judge returns
- 10:04 a.m. Tuesday
Assistant Oakland County Prosecutor Marc Keast walked in moments before Judge Cheryl Matthews returned to the stand. Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald came in right after Matthews.
Jennifer Crumbley returns
- 10:02 a.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley returned to the courtroom and took her place next to Smith. They are discussing something about the case while they wait.
The judge, prosecution, and jury still haven’t entered.
Smith in courtroom
- 9:59 a.m. Tuesday
Defense attorney Shannon Smith is the only person visible at the front of the courtroom. She’s standing at her desk going through evidence with a highlighter.
As of now, court is about a half-hour late after Matthews said she wanted the jury to arrive at 9:30 a.m.
Keast: Trial ‘on schedule’
- 9:53 a.m. Tuesday
When the court allowed cameras to resume after the exhibits were discussed, Matthews was asking the prosecution about their plans for the next several days.
Keast said that he believes the prosecution will rest sometime this week. Prosecutors have said that they plan to call 20-25 witnesses, but it’s unclear if that plan has changed.
Depending on how the trial progresses, Keast said the prosecution might decide not to call some of their witnesses. Smith added that she might call some of those omitted witnesses on her own, if that’s the case.
Keast told the judge that he believes the case is still on or ahead of schedule, through the first three days.
Courtroom still empty
- 9:51 a.m. Tuesday
Smith was in the courtroom for a few minutes, but she left and it remains empty.
Why jury arrival is later than expected
- 9:39 a.m. Tuesday
When Matthews dismissed the jury at 3:35 p.m. Monday, she told them to arrive at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday so they could continue with the prosecution’s next witness.
But the reason for their early dismissal was the prosecution and defense discussing evidence for future admission. When they came back with 55 photos under dispute, the judge realized they would need to continue those arguments in the morning.
So a member of the court called each juror and told them not to come until 9:30 a.m. When Matthews entered the courtroom, she heard arguments from both sides and make rulings on the photos.
Now that that’s been resolved, the jury should arrive soon. Matthews did mention that some of them were having trouble because of the snow.
Explanation of transcript dispute
- 9:28 a.m. Tuesday
Here’s some clarification on the dispute between Smith and Keast about the interview transcript.
On Monday, during Sgt. Joe Brian’s testimony, the prosecution showed a 20-minute video of Oakland County deputies speaking to Jennifer Crumbley and her husband at the Oxford substation right after the shooting at the high school.
Most of the video was difficult to hear, and there wasn’t much valuable discourse. But the prosecution wanted to show that Jennifer Crumbley was sitting with her legs crossed and scrolling on her phone. The goal was to paint a picture that she didn’t show enough emotion or react appropriately to what her son had done.
Smith argued that there’s no “right” response to learning such shocking information.
One of Keast’s follow-up questions to Brian was to ask which parent can be heard sobbing. Brian said it was James Crumbley. Smith took issue with that specification, saying Jennifer Crumbley was also emotional, even if it wasn’t quite as obvious.
So today, when the transcript specified in italics that James Crumbley was “sobbing,” Smith objected to the implication that her client was not crying. Keast didn’t want to submit the transcript without that specification because it wasn’t valuable to the prosecution.
In the end, the transcript was not admitted. Jurors have the ability to watch the full interview on a laptop if they want to examine it further, Keast said.
Click here if you want to watch the full video of the interview that was shown in court.
Judge, Crumbley leave courtroom
- 9:19 a.m. Tuesday
After the procedural issues were handled, Matthews left the courtroom. Jennifer Crumbley was escorted out moments later.
The jury should arrive shortly.
Transcript won’t be admitted
- 9:17 a.m. Tuesday
Keast said if the transcript can’t be admitted as it is, it won’t be admitted at all. Smith didn’t want the transcript to say that James Crumbley was sobbing and not mention her client crying.
Keast said the transcript was only intended to be an aid to the jury since the audio of the interview was difficult to hear in the courtroom. So it will not be admitted.
Keast vs. Smith on whether Jennifer Crumbley was trying
- 9:15 a.m. Tuesday
Keast said Sgt. Joe Brian testified that Jennifer Crumbley wasn’t crying during the interview. Smith and Matthews questioned whether that’s what Brian said.
Smith said she believes she can hear her client crying in the video.
Transcript of police interview
- 9:11 a.m. Tuesday
Smith reviewed the prosecution’s proposed transcript from the interview of the Crumbleys’ interview at the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office substation.
She only had an objection to the transcript saying that James Crumbley was sobbing. She said Jennifer Crumbley was also crying during the interview, but the transcript doesn’t note it.
“I believe that you can hear Jennifer sniffling and crying also, she’s just not as big of a crier as he his,” Smith said. “I believe it’s inaccurate, it’s misleading to mention that James is crying and not mention that she is too.”
Smith said the transcript should either reflect that both parents are crying or not mention crying at all.
Keast said the transcript was created in November 2022 and the only changes made this week were redactions.
Prosecution plans to rest sometime this week
- 9:08 a.m. Tuesday
Matthews asked if the prosecution plans to rest at some point this week, and Keast said yes.
Smith said there are certain witnesses she plans to call if the prosecution decides not to call them.
Item redaction from 3 photos
- 9:05 a.m. Tuesday
Smith also asked for an item to be redacted from a trio of photos -- exhibits 242, 243, and 244.
Matthews agreed, and said that item would be redacted from the pictures. But Keast continued his argument that the photos dispute the defense’s claim that Jennifer Crumbley was a “hyper vigilant mother.”
Before the argument was resolved, the court ordered that the live stream be stopped and audio be cut.
Whiskey bottle left in 2 pieces of evidence
- 9 a.m. Tuesday
Smith asked that one of two photos be struck , either 220 and 221. It’s photos from inside the shooter’s room, but one is blurry and one is clearer, according to Smith.
Keast said he wanted to show perspective with both photos. Matthews said one photo shows the location of a whiskey bottle in the room, and the other shows a clearer picture of the item.
“I believe the photo from farther away, you can tell what it is,” Smith said.
Matthews said she is going to allow both to be admitted.
Jury was told not to come until 9:30
- 8:59 a.m. Tuesday
Matthews said when she found out about the 55 pieces of evidence that needed to be discussed, the court called all 17 jury members and told them not to come until 9:30 a.m. She had originally asked them to arrive an hour earlier.
Some jurors are also having trouble getting to the courthouse because of the snow, Matthews said.
Court in session
- 8:58 a.m. Tuesday
Matthews has arrived and court is in session.
Jennifer Crumbley arrives
- 8:55 a.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley walked into the courtroom at 8:55 a.m.
Court should begin soon
- 8:49 a.m. Tuesday
So far, we haven’t seen Judge Matthews or any members of the jury in the courtroom.
On the first day of the trial, Jennifer Crumbley was brought in at 8:44 a.m. She arrived at 8:42 a.m. Friday, but not until around 9:30 a.m. on Monday.
Defense attorney, prosecutors in courtroom
- 8:38 a.m. Tuesday
Defense attorney Shannon Smith arrived in the courtroom, followed soon after by Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald.
Assistant Oakland County Prosecutor Marc Keast entered the court room a few minutes later.
Defense strategy
- 8:23 a.m. Tuesday
Last week was a struggle for Jennifer Crumbley’s defense, from lines of questioning that were shot down by Matthews to technological struggles with the exhibits.
But Smith’s strategy was more clear Monday. She made it clear that Hopkins didn’t reach out to the parents of the shooter after a handful of minor incidents and also stated that he doesn’t know the Crumbleys so he isn’t an expert on how they would handle such a situation emotionally.
When the video of the parents being interviewed by police was played in the courtroom, Smith said everyone responds to trauma differently. She argued that Jennifer Crumbley’s posture in a police interview isn’t proof that she wasn’t a vigilant mother.
Involuntary manslaughter charges
- 8:10 a.m. Tuesday
Jennifer Crumbley is facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter -- one for each of the Oxford High School students killed during her son’s shooting.
Prosecutors have to prove that she was grossly negligent and ignored signs that her son could be a danger to others.
Counselor testimony about meeting
- 7:58 a.m. Tuesday
Some of the most powerful testimony of Day 3 was Hopkins’ description of his meeting with the shooter the morning of the the school shooting.
He said he spent a total of 90 minutes with the shooter that day and didn’t want him to be left alone. He thought the shooter might be showing signs of suicide ideation.
Hopkins also said he had hoped the Crumbleys would take their son home from the meeting that day, but he didn’t directly ask them.
Click here to read a deep dive into his description of the meeting.
Who we’ve heard from so far
- 7:45 a.m. Tuesday
The prosecution plans to call 20 or more witnesses to the stand, and so far, we’ve heard from eight of them through three days of the trial.
On Thursday, Molly Darnell, Kristy Gibson-Marshall, and Cammy Back all testified before lunch. Darnell was a staff member at Oxford High School at the time of the shooting, Gibson-Marshall is the assistant principal, and Back works at the gun store where James Crumbley bought the SIG Sauer handgun for the shooter.
After lunch, we heard testimony from Special Agent Brett Brandon, of the ATF.
On Friday, Edward Wągrowski, who was a computer crimes expert for the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office at the time of the shooting, testified for the entire time court was in session.
Then, on Monday, the prosecution called Kira Pennock, Shawn Hopkins, and Sgt. Joe Brian.
Pennock owns the barn where the Crumbley parents kept their horses, Hopkins is an Oxford High School counselor, and Brian interviewed the parents at an Oakland County substation in Oxford right after the shooting.
Why jury left early Monday
- 7:32 a.m. Tuesday
During the first two days of this trial, court was in session until around 5 p.m, but on Monday, the judge excused the jury at 3:35 p.m. because the prosecution and defense had to discuss several pieces of evidence that the defense objected to admitting.
After about 30 minutes, defense attorney Shannon Smith and assistant Oakland County Prosecutor Marc Keast went back on the record and told Judge Matthews that there are 55 photographs under dispute.
They made their arguments for each, and Matthews went to her chambers to make rulings. She sent everybody home at that time.
Breakdowns from previous court dates
- 7:19 a.m. Tuesday
If you missed any of our updates from the first three days of the Jennifer Crumbley trial, or from the jury selection process, here are links to those articles:
Court schedule for Tuesday
- 7:01 a.m. Tuesday
Day 4 of the trial will continue with prosecutors calling witnesses to the stand. Judge Cheryl A. Matthews asked the jury to be ready by 8:30 a.m. after they were released at 3:35 p.m. Monday.
