OXFORD, Mich. – The involuntary manslaughter trial continued Monday for James Crumbley, the father of the Oxford High School shooter.
Prosecutors called three more witnesses to the stand, for a total of nine witnesses during the first three days of the trial.
Here are some key details about the case:
- James Crumbley is represented by defense attorney Mariell Lehman. Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald and assistant Oakland County Prosecutor Marc Keast lead the prosecution. Judge Cheryl A. Matthews presides over the case.
- Crumbley is charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter -- one for each of the students who were killed by his son during the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting at Oxford High School: 14-year-old Hana St. Juliana, 16-year-old Tate Myre, 17-year-old Madisyn Baldwin, and 17-year-old Justin Shilling.
- His wife was found guilty of all four counts on Feb. 6, 2024, after a nine-day trial that included seven days of witness testimony and two days of jury deliberation.
- The shooter was sentenced in December to life in prison without the chance of parole.
Here are the full updates from Day 3 of the trial:
Proceedings end
- 4:17 p.m. Monday
The jury was dismissed for the day, and James Crumbley was escorted out of the courtroom.
Matthews asked the jury to be back at 9 a.m. Tuesday to continue.
Comment stricken
- 4:16 p.m. Monday
Brandon said it struck him that James Crumbley mispronounced the word “Sauer” when he told police he had a SIG Sauer. He said someone who bought the gun for themself would know how to say the word.
Lehman objected and asked that Brandon’s speculation be stricken from the record. Matthews agreed, and the objection was sustained.
‘Locked’
- 4:14 p.m. Monday
McDonald clarified that when he was at the substation, James Crumbley never said that the guns were “locked,” only that the gun was kept separately from the ammunition.
Redirect: Brett Brandon
- 4:12 p.m. Monday
McDonald asked Brandon if there’s any other evidence that additional trigger locks were provided to the Crumbleys. He said no, and said it would be difficult to even find a cable lock small enough for the Cobra Classic.
Brandon said he’s not aware that any other cable lock was ever located.
Similarities between SIG Sauer and drawing
- 4:10 p.m. Monday
Lehman brought up that Brandon said there was a similarity to the SIG Sauer and the gun drawn by the shooter on his math worksheet. She displayed the comparison photo on the court monitor.
Brandon confirmed the details of the drawing that led him to believe that it was a depiction of the SIG Sauer.
Lehman said Brandon has training and is very familiar with handguns.
Lehman said Brandon doesn’t know if anyone else noticed the comparison between the gun and the drawing. He said he can’t know for sure.
Range safety officer
- 4:08 p.m. Monday
Lehman pointed out that there is a range safety officer in the video of the shooter at the shooting range, and that the range safety officer would have raised an issue if anything unsafe was going on. Brandon said he assumes so because that is the range safety officer’s job.
Ammo bought on Nov. 27, 2021
- 4:07 p.m. Monday
Lehman said Nov. 27, 2021, when the shooter went to the shooting range with his mother, was the first time 9 mm ammunition was purchased after James Crumbley bought the SIG Sauer. Brandon agreed.
Videos sent to shooter’s friend
- 4:03 p.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that there was nothing in Brandon’s investigation that James Crumbley was aware of his son handling the guns shown in the videos the shooter sent to his friend. Brandon agreed, saying the only evidence is location data that James Crumbley was inside the home.
Gun proficiency
- 3:59 p.m. Monday
Lehman asked if it’s important for people who live in a home with guns to know how to handle them safely. He said it’s a matter of personal preference. He said parents could just keep the guns hidden.
Unregistered guns
- 3:58 p.m. Monday
Brandon said if guns aren’t registered, the penalty is a fine.
Lehman said it’s just a civil infraction, and Brandon said he can take her word for that.
ATF safety pamphlet
- 3:57 p.m. Monday
Lehman said regardless of where the pamphlets were kept, there’s no evidence that tells Brandon how often James Crumbley reviewed the pamphlets with his son.
Brandon said that’s why he felt shocked that the pamphlet was discarded behind the foam in the case.
Brandon agreed that it’s not required to display the pamphlet in his home.
Gun safe code
- 3:56 p.m. Monday
Lehman said there’s no evidence that anyone other than James Crumbley knew the combination to the gun safe, or that he gave the code to his son.
Brandon mentioned the videos of the shooter handling the gun. But he said he doesn’t have hard evidence that James Crumbley’s son knew the code to the gun safe.
Researching SIG Sauer
- 3:54 p.m. Monday
Brandon said there’s no evidence that anyone did research on the SIG Sauer specifically other than the shooter. He was implying that the shooter made the decision about which gun to buy, not his father.
Cable lock on SIG Sauer
- 3:53 p.m. Monday
Lehman said James Crumbley should have gotten three cable locks, since he bought three guns. Brandon said yes.
Lehman said Brandon didn’t find the other two cable locks at the home, and Brandon agreed.
Brandon said statements in court suggest that a cable lock wasn’t used on the SIG Sauer. He said it’s not a certainty that a cable lock wasn’t used, but he finds it “highly improbable” that there was a cable lock on the SIG Sauer.
More on cable lock
- 3:51 p.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that cable locks can be used on different kinds of guns, and Brandon agreed.
She asked if a cable lock for a 22-caliber gun might not fit in a 9 mm handgun, but a 9 mm cable lock might fit in a 22-caliber gun. He said yes but it depends how you put the lock through the gun, too.
There are also universal cable locks that can work on any semi-automatic handgun, Brandon agreed.
ATF pamphlet
- 3:50 p.m. Monday
Lehman said they’ve talked about one of the ATF pamphlets, but since James Crumbley bought three guns, he should have received three. Brandon agreed.
Lehman said they haven’t discussed the other two.
SIG Sauer case, ammunition
- 3:49 p.m. Monday
The SIG Sauer case and an empty box of 9 mm ammunition were found in James Crumbley’s bedroom after the shooting, Brandon agreed.
Shooter’s access to weapon
- 3:48 p.m. Monday
Lehman said Brandon didn’t find any evidence that James Crumbley was aware that his son had obtained access to the guns in his home.
Brandon said he doesn’t recall James Crumbley having the videos of his son with the guns, or anything of that nature.
Brandon agreed there’s not hard evidence that James Crumbley knew about his son accessing the weapon.
Minors using handguns
- 3:47 p.m. Monday
Lehman said it’s legal for a minor to possess a handgun in certain circumstances, and Brandon agreed. He said listed hunting, ranching, employment, and target practice as reasons for minors to possess handguns.
Brandon agreed that there’s no evidence that the shooter went to a shooting range by himself.
Cable lock use
- 3:44 p.m. Monday
Brandon agreed that there are a number of variables that determine whether a firearm is stored safely.
Lehman said cable locks can be removed with a key. Brandon agreed that that’s the way to open a cable lock.
Gun safety
- 3:43 p.m. Monday
Brandon agreed that there are a variety of ways to safely store a handgun at a home, such as a gun safe or a locking gun case. You could use a cable lock, a trigger lock, or store the gun loaded. Brandon said he’s not sure simply leaving the gun unloaded would qualify as safe.
“Is an unloaded gun dangerous?” Lehman asked. Brandon said it depends on the situation inside the home. He said without knowing more information about the circumstances, he can’t say whether an unloaded gun is dangerous or not.
More on use
- 3:41 p.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that two pistols were found -- the Cobra Classic and the Kel-Tec -- in the Crumbley home. Brandon said yes.
He confirmed that the SIG Sauer was bought on Nov. 26, 2021.
Lehman said the shooter went with his mother to the gun range on Nov. 27, 2021. They bought two boxes of Patriot Defense 9 mm ammunition and used one box, Brandon confirmed.
Gun range visits
- 3:39 p.m. Monday
Brandon confirmed that he reviewed a significant amount of evidence related to the Oxford High School shooting.
Lehman asked about the Nov. 25, 2021, shooting range visit by James Crumbley and his son. She said they bought 22-caliber and 9 mm ammunition. They fired the Kel-Tec and a 9 mm that they rented. Brandon confirmed.
They went to a gun range on Oct. 3, 2021, and bought 22-caliber ammunition, Lehman said. Brandon said that sounds right.
Cross examination: Brett Brandon
- 3:38 p.m. Monday
Lehman began her cross examination of Brandon.
Court back in session
- 3:37 p.m. Monday
Matthews returned, and court was called back into session.
The jury also returned to the courtroom.
James Crumbley returns
- 3:35 p.m. Monday
James Crumbley returned to the courtroom and took his seat next to Lehman at the defense table.
Drawing of gun on math worksheet
- 3:32 p.m. Monday
Last week, the prosecution heavily emphasized that James Crumbley never stopped home after seeing the drawings on his son’s math worksheet.
McDonald’s questioning of Brandon supplemented that evidence, because he said he noticed the similarities between the SIG Sauer handgun and the drawing of a gun.
These are all pieces of the prosecution’s larger argument, which is that James Crumbley was the adult best positioned to see the math worksheet drawing and -- due to his knowledge of the SIG Sauer -- realize that his son could be a danger to others.
What’s next after break
- 3:19 p.m. Monday
When proceedings resume, Lehman will begin her cross examination of Brandon.
Court takes break
- 3:06 p.m. Monday
Matthews agreed that the court needed a break. She said they would take a 10-15 minute break.
‘He drew a murder’
- 3:05 p.m. Monday
When he viewed the drawing, Brandon said his impression was, “That he drew his firearm.”
“He drew a murder,” Brandon said.
Brandon talks about math worksheet
- 3:04 p.m. Monday
Brandon was shown a picture of the original math worksheet drawings.
He said the first thing that stood out to him was that there was an apparent shooting victim.
He said the gun that was drawn has “many similarities” to the SIG Sauer. He said he believes that was a drawing of that specific handgun.
Brandon said there’s a picture of what appears to be 9 mm ammunition near where the shooter wrote, “Blood everywhere.”
Instagram post shows target
- 3:01 p.m. Monday
“Took my new Sig out to the range today,” the shooter posted on Instagram. “Definitely need to get used to the new sights lol.”
Jennifer Crumbley then had an Instagram post with three photos that called the gun “his” Christmas gift.
Leaving gun range
- 3:01 p.m. Monday
The shooter packed up the gun and magazines into the gun case, and then his mother carried the case out of the shooting range, Brandon said.
The shooter left carrying the box of 50 rounds of ammunition.
Previous testimony showed that 32 shots were fired and 18 rounds of unused ammunition were found after the shooting at the high school.
Leaving with 50 rounds of ammunition
- 2:59 p.m. Monday
Brandon said it appears they fired a combined total of 50 rounds. They discarded one empty ammunition box and left with one unopened box (of 50 rounds), Brandon testified.
“The shooter walks out carrying the box of ammunition,” Brandon said.
Shooter fires SIG Sauer
- 2:57 p.m. Monday
Brandon said based on all the evidence, that trip to the shooting range with Jennifer Crumbley was the first time the shooter fired the SIG Sauer handgun.
Surveillance video shows him firing repeatedly at a target.
At one point, he appears to help show his mother how to shoot the SIG Sauer.
2 boxes of ammunition
- 2:55 p.m. Monday
McDonald stopped the video at one point and asked Brandon what the shooter was doing. He said the shooter was motioning a “two” with his hand, and then Jennifer Crumbley bought two boxes of ammunition.
Lehman objected, saying the prosecution was asking Brandon to speculate about what the “two” gesture meant. Brandon said playing the video will show what happened next.
The video showed the employee picking up targets and two boxes of ammunition. Each box costs about $24, according to Brandon.
Video from gun range on Nov. 27, 2021
- 2:53 p.m. Monday
Surveillance video shows Jennifer Crumbley walking up to the counter at the gun range. She was carrying the gun case with the SIG Sauer inside. The shooter stood behind her as she spoke to the employee at the counter.
She paid for two boxes of 9 mm ammunition, targets, and the range visit, Brandon said.
Gun range visit with Jennifer Crumbley
- 2:51 p.m. Monday
On Nov. 27, 2021, Jennifer Crumbley and her son went to the gun range, Brandon testified. That was the day after James Crumbley purchased the SIG Sauer.
Surveillance video shows the shooter at the gun range with his mother. At that time, James Crumbley was working, doing DoorDash deliveries, according to location data.
Where guns, cases were found in Crumbley house
- 2:50 p.m. Monday
Brandon confirmed that the cable lock was found inside the Kel-Tec gun case in the kitchen.
The Kel-Tec weapon was in the gun safe in the bedroom.
Cable lock shown in court
- 2:48 p.m. Monday
McDonald held up the cable lock, which is still in the baggie. She handed it to Brandon and asked him to tell the jury whether or not he thinks it’s ever been opened.
He said it’s possible the top part has been opened.
“If this was used consistently and pulled out of this packaging, there would be more tearing on the side,” Brandon said. “It’s cheap plastic packaging.”
Brandon confirmed that the instruction manual and the two keys are still inside the bag.
Jennifer Crumbley’s photo
- 2:47 p.m. Monday
Brandon was shown a photo that Jennifer Crumbley took on her cellphon at 6:55 p.m. Nov. 26, 2021.
It shows the SIG Sauer, the Kel-Tec, two magazines, the ATF pamphlet, and the cable lock in a baggie. All of those items were on top of the open SIG Sauer gun case.
Brandon noted that the pamphlet was outside the foam in this moment, and the cable lock was still in the baggie.
Shooter’s instagram post
- 2:46 p.m. Monday
On Nov. 26, 2021, the shooter posted three pictures of the SIG Sauer on Instagram, saying, “Just got my new beauty today. SIG Sauer 9 mm. Ask any questions I will answer.”
SIG Sauer purchase
- 2:45 p.m. Monday
Brandon reiterated that the SIG Sauer was bought on Nov. 26, 2021, for $489.95. After taxes, the gun cost $519.35.
Gun range visit on Oct. 3, 2021
- 2:43 p.m. Monday
On Oct. 3, 2021, a message from James Crumbley to his wife indicated that he was bringing their son to the shooting range.
Prices in ammunition
- 2:42 p.m. Monday
Brandon said 9 mm ammunition is more expensive than 22-caliber ammunition.
He said 22-caliber ammunition is generally used for target practice, while 9 mm can be used for self-defense.
Brandon said people do shoot 9 mm weapon at the range, but it’s more costly.
Gun range visit on Sept. 25, 2021
- 2:39 p.m. Monday
On Sept. 25, 2021, James Crumbley took his son to a gun range. Brandon said he obtained surveillance video from the gun range in Clarkston.
The video was played in court and showed James Crumbley and his son walking in and approaching the front counter. They proceeded to the shooting area, and the shooter fired some shots at targets.
At one point, the shooter appeared to have a problem with one of the guns and had to ask James Crumbley for help. James Crumbley picked up the gun, inserted the magazine, and confirmed that the gun was working.
Gun range visit on Sept. 1, 2021
- 2:34 p.m. Monday
On Sept. 1, 2021, James Crumbley took a video of his son firing a gun at the indoor gun range, Brandon said.
The video was shown in court. The shooter fired several rounds at a silhouette target.
James Crumbley’s location
- 2:33 p.m. Monday
McDonald clarified that James Crumbley was in the home at the time these videos were taken by the shooter. Brandon said yes.
That had been previously established by location data.
Brandon said whether James Crumbley was standing over the shooter or not, that’s not safe.
Videos of shooter handling SIG Sauer
- 2:29 p.m. Monday
Prosecutors played the videos of the shooter handling the SIG Sauer handgun that had been played during Edward Wagrowski’s testimony. The videos were sent to the shooter’s friend.
Brandon said he can tell from the couch in the background in one of the videos that it was taken in the Crumbleys’ living room.
In another video, Brandon describes how the shooter “slammed” a round into the gun while the safety was off. He said if the shooter had pulled the trigger in that moment, the gun would fire.
Brandon said the shooter’s cat, Dexter, was in the background of that second video. He could also see the dining room table.
Gun range messages with mother-in-law
- 2:26 p.m. Monday
Brandon read messages between James Crumbley and his mother-in-law. He discussed going to the gun range with them.
He told his mother-in-law that the shooter would be excited.
Gun range on June 26, 2021
- 2:24 p.m. Monday
On June 26, 2021, James Crumbley and his son went to the indoor gun range in Clarkston.
At least one video was taken that day, and James Crumbley sent the video to Jennifer Crumbley, Brandon said.
An Instagram story that Jennifer Crumbley created using that video was played in court.
Brandon said the Kel-Tec was used in the shooting.
Brandon on gun range videos
- 2:21 p.m. Monday
Brandon said it appeared the shooter almost shot his own hand when he was using the Cobra Classic.
He said James Crumbley sent the videos to his wife the next day.
Jennifer Crumbley uploaded one of the videos as an Instagram story, Brandon said.
Gun range visit on June 20, 2021
- 2:19 p.m. Monday
On June 20, 2021, James Crumbley went to the gun range, Brandon said. He indicated so in messages to Jennifer Crumbley.
Videos from James Crumbley’s phone showed his son firing the Kel-Tec and the Cobra Classic. Both of those videos were shown in the courtroom.
Gun purchase
- 2:16 p.m. Monday
On June 15, 2021, which is the day James Crumbley initiated the purchase for the Cobra Classic, he exchanged messages with his wife on Facebook.
James Crumbey indicated in those messages that he was taking the shooter to the gun store. He told her he paid for the gun and would get it once the sale went through.
Brandon said in some cases, a background check can take some time, so James Crumbley had to return to get the gun the next day.
Gun range video
- 2:15 p.m. Monday
Brandon got surveillance video of two visits by the shooter to the gun range in Clarkston. He said there were a total of about eight visits.
There were also videos from the shooting range on the Crumbleys’ cellphones.
Proficiency with firearm
- 2:12 p.m. Monday
Brandon said when he watched the surveillance footage from the school shooting, he noticed that the shooter had had some level of proficiency with guns. He especially noticed with the stance the shooter took when he killed Tate Myre.
He also noted the way the shooter reloaded his gun before a magazine was fully emptied. He also thought it was unique the way the shooter took out and dropped the magazines when he was taken into custody.
After noting these tendencies, Brandon said he called a gun range in the area and confirmed that the shooter had been to that range.
Guns weren’t registered
- 2:11 p.m. Monday
Brandon said none of James Crumbley’s handguns were registered.
SIG Sauer case unlocked
- 2:10 p.m. Monday
McDonald clarified that there are holes in the SIG Sauer case that allow it to be locked. She asked if there were any locking mechanisms on the case when it was found. Brandon said there were no locks on the case.
Youth Handgun Safety Act pamphlet
- 2:08 p.m. Monday
Brandon said he was shocked when he found the Youth Handguns Safety Act notice pamphlet behind the foam inside the SIG Sauer gun case. He said he was shocked because they must have essentially discarded it behind the foam.
SIG Sauer case
- 2:06 p.m. Monday
The case for the SIG Sauer was also found during the search. It was sold with the SIG Sauer and has two holes where locks can be inserted.
It was found on top of the bed in the parents’ bedroom, Brandon said.
Gun safe combination
- 2:05 p.m. Monday
Brandon said the combination to that safe was “000,” which is the factory setting.
He said the SIG Sauer doesn’t fit in that gun safe, even by itself.
Gun case vs. gun safe
- 2:04 p.m. Monday
Brandon said a gun case can be locked, but it’s not the same as a gun safe.
He said there were no locking mechanisms in the Kel-Tec case when it was found.
A gun safe has a combination lock required for it to open.
Gun case, safe found during search
- 2:03 p.m. Monday
Brandon said there were gun cases recovered from the Crumbley home during a search.
A case for the Kel-Tec was found in a cabinet in the island of the kitchen, he said. No gun was inside the case when police found that case. The cable lock for the SIG Sauer was in the Kel-Tec case.
He demonstrated for the jury in court how to open and close that case.
One other case was also found in the home, Brandon said.
There was a small pistol safe in the Crumbley household, and Brandon said it was found in a TV stand in the parents’ bedroom inside of a cabinet. The Kel-Tec and the Cobra Classic were found inside that gun safe when police performed their search, Brandon said.
Brandon demonstrates gun safety
- 1:59 p.m. Monday
Brandon took possession of the Kel-Tec P17 pistol to demonstrate for the jury how to handle it safely.
Cobra Classic ammunition
- 1:57 p.m. Monday
McDonald showed Brandon the Cobra Classic, which is also a 22-caliber. James Crumbley bought it on June 15, 2021, and picked it up the following day.
Brandon said it can hold two rounds.
Lehman asks to approach
- 1:54 p.m. Monday
Lehman asked to approach the judge. McDonald and Keast both joined.
Lehman had objected several times to McDonald’s questioning of Brandon.
McDonald, Keast, and Lehman spoke to Matthews for about three minutes before proceedings resumed.
Kel-Tec ammunition
- 1:51 p.m. Monday
The Kel-Tec is also semi-automatic, but it fires 22-caliber ammunition, Brandon said.
Brandon said the Kel-Tec has a 17-round total capacity. He said the 9 mm would be a wider round. Based on the size of the round, a 9 mm is also heavier.
“So the damage from that round would be more than a 22 mm round,” Brandon said.
He said ATF agents and most officers carry 9 mm guns.
Lehman objected, but Matthews said previous testimony has suggested that the shooter was intent on buying a 9 mm, even though the family had 22-caliber weapons already.
Ammunition
- 1:50 p.m. Monday
McDonald showed Brandon the magazines for the SIG Sauer. He said they have a capacity of 15 rounds, and with an additional round in the chamber of the gun, the SIG Sauer could be fired 16 times without reloading.
It is a semi-automatic handgun.
Murder weapon
- 1:48 p.m. Monday
Brandon held the SIG Sauer and showed the jury where he found the serial number.
Gun safety
- 1:47 p.m. Monday
McDonald asked Brandon about handling a handgun safely. He spoke extensively about how to make sure a gun isn’t loaded and broke down the ATF’s four pillars of gun safety.
SIG Sauer purchase
- 1:44 p.m. Monday
Brandon said he’s aware that on Nov. 26, 2021, James Crumbley bought a SIG Sauer SP 2022 9 mm handgun.
3 handguns
- 1:42 p.m. Monday
Brandon said he learned that James Crumbley had bought two other guns from the same store in Oxford -- the Cobra Classic and the Kel-Tec.
He said all three guns purchased by James Crumbley were handguns.
Handgun laws
- 1:41 p.m. Monday
Brandon said there are more restrictions on handguns than long guns because handguns are easier to conceal.
Brandon said it’s possible to register a handgun at 18 years old, but you can’t buy a handgun from a federally licensed gun store until you’re 21 years old.
Tracing gun’s ownership
- 1:37 p.m. Monday
Brandon learned a man in Rochester had first obtained the SIG Sauer from the gun store in Oxford. Two ATF agents spoke to that man, and that man said he had sold the gun back to the gun store in early September.
Then, agents went to the gun store and spoke to Cammy Back, who told them the gun had been sold to James Crumbley on Nov. 26, 2021.
Preparing for search at house
- 1:36 p.m. Monday
Brandon spoke to Detective Lt. Sam Marzban and started to prepare facts for a search of the Crumbley household.
Police placed gun in trash bin
- 1:34 p.m. Monday
Brandon spoke to Willis and then was taken to the gun, which was inside a small rectangular trash bin. Magazines and the shooter’s cellphone were also in the trash bin.
Brandon said police placed the gun in the trash bin to keep the evidence safe while the school was cleared.
Early in investigative process
- 1:33 p.m. Monday
Brandon said early in the process, there were people volunteering to clear the school for a second time, and then Lt. Timothy Willis was coordinating the investigation of the case.
Since the shooter was in custody and the weapon had been secured, he thought the best use of his time was to begin tracing the firearm.
Shooter in custody
- 1:32 p.m. Monday
Brandon went to the front of the school. He was informed at that time that the shooter was in custody, and officials were trying to figure out who was going to be in charge of which parts of the investigation.
Heading to Oxford High School
- 1:30 p.m. Monday
Brandon said it can take about an hour to get from his office to Oxford High School, depending on traffic.
He received more information while he was en route that a shooting had been confirmed.
He went north on I-75. In Troy, he joined the “caravan” of emergency vehicles heading north to exit 81.
“It was very fast, but it was as safe as we could be,” Brandon said of the speed of the caravan.
Brandon heads to high school
- 1:26 p.m. Monday
Brandon was at ATF headquarters in Downtown Detroit when he learned about the shooting at Oxford High School.
Brandon grew up in the Oxford area, he said. He grabbed his bag and ran out the door.
“I just ran out the door and got to my car,” he said.
He turned on the lights and sirens and went to the high school.
Witness: ATF Special Agent Brett Brandon
- 1:21 p.m. Monday
Prosecutors called Special Agent Brett Brandon.
Brandon was the final witness to testify on Day 1 of Jennifer Crumbley’s trial.
Brandon is with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). He is currently assigned to the Pontiac Gun Violence Task Force, which investigates the criminal use of firearms in shootings.
Brandon investigates gun crimes that happen in the state of Michigan. He is the federal agent assigned to the Oxford High School shooting investigation.
Disturbance in courtroom
- 1:19 p.m. Monday
There was a disturbance in the gallery of the courtroom before the jury came in.
Tate Myre’s father is in the courtroom wearing a “42 STRONG” polo. After Lehman asked to approach the bench, McDonald and Keast left the room.
When McDonald and Keast returned, the father of Madisyn Baldwin said, “Unbelievable.” Tate Myre’s father zipped up a jacket over his polo.
“Why are you covering up your charitable organization?” Madisyn’s father asked.
“Would you like to be (excused) from the courtroom?” Matthews asked.
“Not particularly,” Madisyn’s father replied.
Shawn Ley said Lehman might have raised the issue, but Matthews looked in the direction of Tate Myre’s father a few times and spoke with her assistant twice. The assistant left the courtroom briefly and returned at one point.
Matthews might also have rules about logos, messages, and/or statements in her courtroom.
Lehman asks to approach
- 1:13 p.m. Monday
Lehman asked if she could approach before the next witness takes the stand. She and the prosecution spoke to Matthews for a few minutes before returning to their tables.
Lehman whispered to James Crumbley afterward. The courtroom was silent without and proceedings for about the next seven minutes.
This took place before the jury was brought into the courtroom.
Court back in session
- 1:11 p.m. Monday
Judge Matthews has returned, and court is back in session.
James Crumbley returns
- 1:10 p.m. Monday
James Crumbley was escorted back into the courtroom by two Oakland County deputies. His handcuffs were removed, and he put on his blue tie while seated at the defense table.
More on James Crumbley at meeting
- 1:10 p.m. Monday
James Crumbley’s interactions with his son at the meeting at Oxford High School on the morning of the shooting was a hot topic of conversation during the testimony of school officials.
Hopkins and Ejak both said James Crumbley showed concern for the shooter and told him that there were people he can talk to at any time.
📄 Click here to read a deeper dive into that topic.
Current scene in courtroom
- 1:02 p.m. Monday
Keast and Lt. Timothy Willis are at the prosecution’s desk. Karen McDonald joined them. ATF Special Agent Brett Brandon is seated behind the prosecution’s table.
Lehman sat beside her aide for a moment at the defense table and then left.
James Crumbley, the judge, and the jury have not yet returned.
Lehman stresses hindsight
- 1:01 p.m. Monday
Lehman used her cross examination of Ejak to stress that he says he would act differently, in hindsight.
“The information that you had on that day, at that time, is what led you to make the decisions that you made and feel the way that you felt about the situation that you were presented with in Mr. Hopkins’ office?” Lehman asked.
“That’s a fair statement, yes,” Ejak said.
It’s not hard to see where Lehman is going with this line of questioning. She’s going to make the same argument in defense of James Crumbley, saying he was just one of many people who missed warning signs and had no way of knowing what was about to happen.
🎥 Watch testimony from Oxford officials
- 12:53 p.m. Monday
🎥 You can watch the full testimony from Hopkins and Ejak in the videos below.
Still no new witnesses
- 12:44 p.m. Monday
Prosecutors got permission in the weeks before the trial to call at least two new witnesses to testify: an Oxford High School student who was injured during the shooting and the previous owner of the murder weapon.
So far, all eight of the witnesses to testify in this case also testified against Jennifer Crumbley.
Testimony from school officials
- 12:31 p.m. Monday
Most of the testimony from Hopkins and Ejak was a repeat of what we heard during Jennifer Crumbley’s trial.
Hopkins testified once again that he wanted the Crumbleys to take the shooter home from the meeting on Nov. 30, 2021. The defense will argue that he never explicitly told them the shooter needed to be removed from school.
Ejak talked about retrieving the shooter’s backpack and explained why he didn’t look inside.
Next witness unclear
- 12:22 p.m. Monday
Matthews asked the prosecution before lunch about the next witness, and Keast said he has to sort out that situation and then he will let the court know.
So far, prosecutors have called eight witnesses to the stand. Keast indicated late last week that they would likely call 15-20 witnesses, but Matthews told the jury on Friday that some names have been removed from that list.
New information from Hopkins
- 12:08 p.m. Monday
Most of the information from Hopkins was similar to what we heard during the Jennifer Crumbley trial. But there were some subtle differences.
One that stood out was Hopkins’ description of James Crumbley during the meeting at the high school.
Hopkins testified that James Crumbley was talking to his son during that meeting, referencing the hard copy of the math worksheet and affirming that his son has people he can talk to.
Lehman even asked Hopkins if he believed James Crumbley’s demeanor and level of concern during the meeting was “appropriate” for the situation, and Hopkins said yes.
Court breaks for lunch
- 11:53 a.m. Monday
Matthews excused the jury for lunch. She said they will return at 1 p.m.
Another redirect: Nicholas Ejak
- 11:52 a.m. Monday
Keast clarified that the emails about the shooter from teachers were shared with teachers, and James Crumbley didn’t disclose that his son had access to a gun. Ejak agreed.
Re-cross: Nicholas Ejak
- 11:51 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that Ejak doesn’t know whether the shooter had expressed sadness to his parents. Ejak said he doesn’t know.
Disciplinary concerns
- 11:50 a.m. Monday
Ejak clarified that his viewpoint of the meeting never changed from mental health concerns to disciplinary concerns.
Ejak didn’t know about gun
- 11:49 a.m. Monday
Keast asked Ejak if James Crumbley told the school officials that his son had been bought a gun for his son four days previously. Ejak said no.
Ejak said he would have acted differently if he knew that the shooter had access to a weapon.
Redirect: Nicholas Ejak
- 11:48 a.m. Monday
Keast began his redirect examination of Ejak.
Hindsight
- 11:48 a.m. Monday
“Looking in hindsight, there was more information?” Lehman asked.
“Yes, we now know there’s a lot more information,” Ejak said.
“You might look at things differently, looking in hindsight?” Lehman asked.
“I would 100% look at things differently,” Ejak said.
“But the information that you had on that day, at that time, is what led you to make the decisions that you made and feel the way that you felt about the situation that you were presented with in Mr. Hopkins’ office?” Lehman asked.
“That’s a fair statement, yes,” Ejak said.
Actions based on knowledge
- 11:47 a.m. Monday
Ejak has years of experience with at-risk students and students with academic and disciplinary issues, Lehman clarified. She said Ejak knew the student had looked up bullets and drawn concerning images on a worksheet.
Ejak knew the shooter had gone to the range over the weekend and that he had experienced significant losses recently, Lehman clarified.
She established that Ejak knew the shooter was going to stay in school that day, by the end of the meeting.
“And with all of this -- all of the knowledge that you had on Nov. 30, 2021, at approximately 10:52 a.m., you did not feel that he was a threat to anyone, and you didn’t feel that you had reasonable suspicion to look in his backpack? Lehman asked.
Ejak said no, because he only knew “a fraction” of what everyone knows today.
Learning identity of shooter
- 11:44 a.m. Monday
When Ejak saw footage of the shooting in the office of the school, it didn’t cross his mind that the shooter would be James Crumbley’s son, he confirmed.
Ejak said he didn’t know the identity of the shooter until he recognized the shooter on the footage.
Lehman said his behavior didn’t
No reason to search backpack
- 11:42 a.m. Monday
Ejak reiterated that there was nothing to warrant a search of the shooter’s backpack.
James Crumbley’s demeanor during meeting
- 11:40 a.m. Monday
“In no way did you feel that Mr. Crumbley was being neglectful of his son?” Lehman asked.
“No, I did not,” Ejak said.
“You thought that Mr. Crumbley showed the appropriate level of emotion with his son in that meeting?” Lehman asked.
Keast objected, saying Ejak can’t speculate to the appropriate level of emotion.
Matthews asked Ejak if there was “anything odd” about James Crumbley’s interaction with his son. Ejak said there was nothing odd.
Removing student from school
- 11:39 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that nobody told the parents that they needed to remove their son from school that day.
Ejak said Hopkins told the parents that he wanted them to get immediate care for their son.
He later said he didn’t find it strange that the parents didn’t remove their student from school, specifically from a disciplinary standpoint.
Mention of journal
- 11:38 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that James Crumbley didn’t mention any specific information when he told his son he could write in his journal.
Ejak agreed that he didn’t hear or know any information about the journal.
James Crumbley’s concern during meeting
- 11:37 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that when Ejak got back to the office, James Crumbley was sitting with his son.
“It was your perception that Mr. Crumbley was showing care for his son?” Ejak said.
“Yes,” Ejak said.
“That he reassured his son that he can always talk to him?” Ejak said.
“Yes,” Ejak said.
Further action
- 11:36 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that if Ejak detected a threat based on the drawings, he would have taken action or alerted someone else to take action. He said that’s correct, but there wasn’t a reason to do so in this instance.
Guns in Oxford
- 11:35 a.m. Monday
Ejak agreed that in the Oxford community, it’s not unusual for students to handle guns.
Withholding information vs. not having information
- 11:34 a.m. Monday
Lehman said that people can’t tell others about something they aren’t themselves aware about.
“Obviously, James Crumbley can’t tell you about things he may not be aware of,” Lehman said. Ejak agreed.
Lehman is trying to establish that James Crumbley didn’t withhold information, rather that he didn’t know the information that he’s accused of withholding.
Video game design
- 11:32 a.m. Monday
Ejak said the parents wanted the shooter to focus more on his grades than video game design.
Ejak said the shooter didn’t feel his parents supported his interest in video game design, and that that was part of an argument from the previous night.
No disciplinary concerns
- 11:31 a.m. Monday
Lehman said Ejak was not concerned that the shooter posed a threat to anyone at the time. He agreed.
Ejak said he didn’t have any concern from a disciplinary standpoint when Jennifer Crumbley confirmed all the things her son had been through recently.
Warning signs
- 11:30 a.m. Monday
Lehman went through a number of potential indicators with students that could raise red flags. Ejak agreed that the shooter didn’t have any of those warning signs, such as previous discipline or bad attendance.
Concerns about worksheet
- 11:29 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that Ejak was first shown the math worksheet drawing on a cellphone, and that he thought the words were more concerning than the pictures. He agreed.
She said the drawings weren’t immediately concerning. She said it wasn’t uncommon for students to draw violent things. Ejak agreed with her statements.
Ejak’s primary role
- 11:27 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified Ejak primarily works with code of conduct, behaviorial and academic intervention, and issues with attendance. Ejak said yes.
Lehman said since he hadn’t had contact with the shooter before November 2021, there weren’t any issues with the shooter. Ejak said that’s correct.
Searching backpack
- 11:26 a.m. Monday
Ejak said if he has a reasonable suspicion that a student has something illegal or something that shouldn’t be possessed in school, he can search a student’s belongings. There has to be some report or alert for him to do a search.
Ejak said nothing that the shooter said, and none of his behavior, would have allowed him to search the backpack.
Ejak said he was never made aware by the parents of the shooter’s access to a weapon
James Crumbley at meeting
- 11:25 a.m. Monday
Ejak said James Crumbley expressed concern about the shooter’s situation during the meeting at the school.
“He expressed concern for his son,” Ejak said. “He reminded his son that he could always speak to him about stuff, and that he had a journal that he could write stuff in if he was feeling frustrated or going through something.”
Expectations for meeting
- 11:24 a.m. Monday
“My understanding and expectation was that, based on the recommendation from the counselor, that the student would be leaving that day,” Ejak said. “Based on prior experiences at schools where parents are called in to talk about student mental health, typically they leave when it’s suggested they leave.”
Ejak said he was present for about 10 minutes of the meeting, but it started 3-4 minutes after the parents arrived.
Backpack
- 11:24 a.m. Monday
When classes changed, Ejak went and grabbed the shooter’s backpack from the math classroom and brought it to the counselor’s office.
In counselor’s office
- 11:23 a.m. Monday
Ejak said the shooter repeatedly indicated that he understood why they were talking about what happened.
Ejak said the shooter expressed being interested in graphic design for video games. The shooter then talked to the counselor about potential avenues through which he could delve into that interest.
When Hopkins brought up the statements on the worksheet that didn’t align with interest in video game design, the shooter expressed sadness due to several issues, such as the friend moving away, the family member’s death, and the dog’s death, Ejak testified.
Talking to counselor
- 11:20 a.m. Monday
Ejak walked down to tell Hopkins about the drawings, and the teacher went back to class.
Before Ejak mentioned anything, Hopkins brought up the shooter in a question form, and Ejak asked, “How did you know?” Ejak learned Hopkins had received an email about the videos the shooter was watching on his phone.
Ejak said he wasn’t viewing this issue from a disciplinary standpoint, but because of a mental health concern.
Math worksheet drawing
- 11:17 a.m. Monday
Ejak got an email the morning of the shooting with an attachment showing the shooter’s original math worksheet drawing. He had first spoken to the teacher in person about the drawings.
“She entered the threshold of my office door and said she was just looking for somebody to report something,” Ejak said.
Ejak said he received the email after he told Hopkins about the worksheet. He said the original teacher had brought a photo of the worksheet to his office previously.
“I briefly read the statements and looked for a name in the corner, and noticed that it was the student who had been in the meeting with Mr. Hopkins and Mrs. Fine the day before,” Ejak said.
He said the statements written on the worksheet stood out to him.
First interaction with shooter
- 11:14 a.m. Monday
Before November 2021, Ejak said he had no interaction with the shooter.
Ejak’s first interaction with the shooter stemmed from the email from a teacher about the shooter looking at bullets on his phone in class.
Ejak said he was in a meeting at the time of the email, so he wasn’t aware of it until after the student had met with Hopkins and the coordinator. Since that situation had already been resolved, Ejak had no interaction with the shooter that day, he said.
Witness: Nicholas Ejak
- 11:12 a.m. Monday
Prosecutors called Nicholas Ejak, who was the dean of students for Oxford High School at the time of the shooting.
Ejak testified after Hopkins (with one witness in between them) during the Jennifer Crumbley trial. Ejak’s testimony was on Day 4 of the Jennifer Crumbley trial.
The year of the shooting was his first with the district. He said he had been in the position for about four months at the time of the shooting.
His job was to deal with discipline, attendance, and disciplinary intervention.
Judge, jury return
- 11:11 a.m. Monday
Matthews returned and court was called back into session.
The jury entered moments later.
James Crumbley returns
- 11:09 a.m. Monday
James Crumbley returned to the courtroom and sat beside Lehman.
James Crumbley returns
- 11:09 a.m. Monday
James Crumbley returned to the courtroom and sat beside Lehman.
Arguments from both sides
- 11:04 a.m. Monday
The strategy for the prosecution during Hopkins’ testimony was clearly to show that James Crumbley should have been more forthcoming with Hopkins and Ejak during the meeting on the morning of the shooting.
Keast highlighted that James Crumbley didn’t tell school officials about the SIG Sauer or that the shooter had access to the weapon.
On the other side, Lehman’s questioning suggested that if Hopkins wasn’t concerned enough to send the shooter home, why should his parents have had that level of concern?
Lehman also pointed out that Hopkins had no reason to believe the Crumbleys didn’t plan to get their son help if the shooting hadn’t happened that afternoon.
Court takes break
- 10:50 a.m. Monday
After the questioning of Hopkins ended, the court took a break.
‘His new gun’
- 10:49 a.m. Monday
Keast clarified that Hopkins didn’t ask the shooter if he had access to a gun. Hopkins agreed that at the time, he didn’t feel he had reason to ask.
Keast said Hopkins learned that the shooter had gone to the shooting range. He clarified that James Crumbley didn’t tell Hopkins that the shooter used “his new gun” at the range. Hopkins said he did not.
Objection to Keast’s question
- 10:48 a.m. Monday
Keast asked what Hopkins would have done if there was additional information at the time of the meeting at the school.
Lehman objected, citing speculation. Matthews agreed.
Lehman asked to approach, and she and Keast spoke to Matthews for a few moments before redirect examination continued.
Redirect: Shawn Hopkins
- 10:45 a.m. Monday
Keast clarified that information and context were important in making these types of situations, Hopkins said yes.
Keast asked Hopkins if James Crumbley had revealed that his son asked for help previously, or that his sone asked for a 9 mm handgun, or that the family had bought a handgun. Hopkins said no.
Here are all the questions Keast asked Hopkins, in succession. Hopkins answered “no” to all of them.
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that Nov. 30 wasn’t the first time that his son asked for help?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that his son asked for help in April 2021?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that despite that, never once was an appointment with a mental health provider set up?”
- “Did James Crumbley ever tell you that as early as June 2021, his son had obtained his own firearm?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that his son had been begging for a 9 mm firearm?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that his son actually sent him a screenshot of a 9 mm for sale a few weeks before the meeting?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that his son actually obtained a 9 mm just four days before this meeting?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that the 9 mm he obtained looked identical to the 9 mm that he drew right here in this picture?”
- “Did James Crumbley tell you that he worked for DoorDash, he hadn’t begun work that day, and he could have taken his son home?”
- “Did he tell you that when his son was talking about his friend leaving, that was actually his only friend?”
‘Did you believe that he was a danger?’
- 10:43 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that Hopkins made decision on Nov. 30, 2021, based on his training, his education, his experience, and the information he had.
Lehman said that information included four emails from teachers about concerns. Hopkins said yes, that was part of it.
That information was not shared with James Crumbley before the meeting, but it was brought up at the meeting, Hopkins agreed.
“Based on all of these things, you did not believe that Mr. Crumbley’s son was an immediate danger to himself?” Lehman asked.
“I did not believe that, no,” Hopkins said.
“Nor did you believe that he was a danger to anyone else?” Lehman asked.
“Based on the information I had, no,” Hopkins said.
James Crumbley speaking to son at meeting
- 10:43 a.m. Monday
James Crumbley told the shooter during the meeting that he has people he can talk to, like his counselor, his journal, and his parents, Hopkins agreed.
Lehman clarified that Hopkins doesn’t know what the journal would look like, and Hopkins said he didn’t have any knowledge about the journal.
James Crumbley at meeting
- 10:42 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that James Crumbley told his son that they talk about things. Hopkins said that’s correct.
Shooter’s response to being offered help
- 10:41 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified that the shooter didn’t express immediate relief or gratitude that he was offered help. She said the shooter didn’t say that he’s asked his parents for help and they didn’t listen.
Hopkins agreed. He said it’s common that students don’t have a big response.
During the meeting with the parents, James Crumbley never said anything about his son previously having asked for help, Hopkins agreed.
When shooting happened
- 10:38 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he didn’t immediately suspect that the shooter was the Crumbleys’ son after he learned of the school shooting.
Getting shooter help
- 10:37 a.m. Monday
Lehman clarified once again that Hopkins had no reason to believe that the parents weren’t going to get their son some help. Hopkins agreed, saying there wasn’t time for him to have that concern (because the shooter happened shortly afterward).
Gun ownership
- 10:36 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he was aware that the student went to the gun range over the weekend.
Hopkins agreed he did not ask whether the shooter owned a gun. He said based on his concerns, he was “concerned about student wellbeing.”
Hopkins said it’s easy to look back in hindsight. Lehman agreed and said everyone in the courtroom knows what eventually happened at the school that day.
Hopkins said he made the best decision he could with 90 minutes of meeting with the student.
Immediate threats
- 10:33 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he doesn’t feel like he was given the full options of what to do with the student. He said he felt his only options were sending the student back to class or sending him to be home alone.
Based on the information he had, Hopkins decided it was better for the student to remain in school than to have him sent home to be alone.
Hopkins said the student had suicidal ideation, but that’s not the same as being actively suicidal. He said the student said he wasn’t suicidal.
Immediate threats
- 10:31 a.m. Monday
Hopkins agreed he didn’t believe the student was an immediate danger to himself or others, based on what he said in that meeting.
Hopkins said the student wanted to stay in school, and that was not immediately concerning.
Question about being a threat
- 10:24 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he asked the shooter if he was a threat to himself or anyone else, and the shooter said he knows the situation looked bad, but he wasn’t going to do anything.
That conversation happened at some point in the office before the parents arrived, Hopkins said.
Waiting for parents to arrive
- 10:23 a.m. Monday
After the shooter expressed concerns about missing chemistry (his third class), Ejak went to the math classroom (where the shooter had his second class) to get the shooter’s backpack.
The shooter began working on classwork while he waited for his parents to arrive, Hopkins said.
Hopkins and the shooter talked about the shooter’s interest in going into video game design. So while they waited for the parents, they watched video from the technical center campus that has programs centered around what the shooter said he wanted to pursue.
Missing class
- 10:21 a.m. Monday
Lehman said the losses the shooter experienced were significant, and Hopkins agreed.
She said the shooter also expressed concerns about missing class. Hopkins said yes, especially after classes changed. He said he was worried about missing chemistry, which was the one after his math class.
Hopkins said the shooter had strong attendance. He didn’t miss school often.
The shooter was close to passing all of his classes, and he was on track for graduation, Hopkins said.
Appropriate vs. concerning
- 10:19 a.m. Monday
When the shooter gave context to the words on the math worksheet, that’s when his demeanor changed from “how do I get out of (this office)” to genuinely sad, Hopkins said.
“His demeanor matched what he was saying,” Hopkins said.
Lehman said being sad was something that became more common in students after the COVID pandemic. Hopkins said the sadness was an appropriate response to the things he listed that had happened recently, but that doesn’t mean the sadness wasn’t concerning.
Frustration about video on phone
- 10:17 a.m. Monday
Hopkins confirmed he was frustrated when he heard about the shooter looking at the video on his phone, because they had just talked about classroom-appropriate behavior the previous day.
Getting shooter out of school
- 10:15 a.m. Monday
Hopkins clarified that he walked to the shooter’s classroom and got him, and also picked up the scribbled out version of the worksheet.
Hopkins said it was about 20 minutes into meeting with the shooter when he called the parents.
More emails about shooter
- 10:12 a.m. Monday
Lehman brought up the email from the morning of the shooting, in which a teacher indicated the shooter had been looking at a video of someone gunning people down. She said this was the fourth email he had received about the shooter since the start of the school year, and the second in two days.
The teacher described the video as “a movie scene” and not a real event. She expressed concern when taking into account some of his other behaviors.
Hopkins said he didn’t forward that email to James Crumbley, but later in the day, the parents were called into the school to meet.
As Hopkins was about to call the shooter down to his office, that’s when Ejak showed up to discuss the math worksheet. Hopkins hadn’t seen the worksheet yet, at that point.
‘Overly concerning’?
- 10:11 a.m. Monday
Lehman asked Hopkins if, as a counselor, he saw anything overly concerning about the shooter researching bullets on his phone.
Hopkins was hesitant to agree to that statement. He said taking all the information into account is why a phone call was made to Jennifer Crumbley.
Information sent to James Crumbley
- 10:10 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he didn’t call James Crumbley. He doesn’t know if the voicemail to Jennifer Crumbley was shared with James Crumbley.
He said none of the emails about the shooter were forwarded to James Crumbley, as far as he knows.
More on gun ownership
- 10:08 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he had been in the Oxford Community Schools district for seven years at the time of the shooting. He agreed that “there are people who own guns.”
He said he was aware some people owned guns, and that it wasn’t unheard of, as asked by Lehman.
Guns in Oxford
- 10:07 a.m. Monday
Hopkins agreed that Oxford is a community where people go hunting. He said it can be common for students to be interested in guns, and for students to like to go to the shooting range.
Lehman asked if going to the shooting range is concerning, in and of itself. Hopkins said it depends on the context.
Phone call to parent
- 10:06 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he was trying to gain context about what was going on. He said a student looking at something on their phone at the end of the hour wasn’t, by itself, more concerning than how the situation was handled at that time.
He said that’s why a phone call was made to the parent.
Meeting about behavior in class
- 10:04 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said the concern was the appropriateness of the behavior in class, so a voicemail was left for Jennifer Crumbley.
Hopkins said the shooter was understanding about the meeting, and he went back to class.
Hopkins said he didn’t see any of the other assignments that “leaned toward the violent side” mentioned by the teacher.
Third email about shooting
- 10:01 a.m. Monday
On Nov. 29, 2021, Hopkins got the third email of the school year about the shooter (Sept. 8, Nov. 10, and Nov. 29), he confirmed.
Hopkins said he was aware after reading that email that the shooter was looking at bullets in class. Then he met with the student and the coordinator in the coordinator’s office. The coordinator did most of the talking, but Hopkins was there to support the student.
Hopkins asked the shooter why he thought a teacher would be raising issues right now. Hopkins said the shooter was forthcoming in saying he had researched bullets in class after going to the shooting range with his mother the previous day.
Talking to student in hallway
- 9:58 a.m. Monday
On Nov. 10, when he was asked to check in by a teacher, Hopkins said he responded about two hours after the school day ended. Hopkins said he met with the shooter the following morning in the hallway.
“It was a normal response, given the situation,” Hopkins said.
Lehman clarified that Hopkins simply told the shooter that he was available to talk. Hopkins agreed, saying the email from the teacher only said the student might need to speak to someone.
Hopkins didn’t tell the Crumbley parents about the Nov. 10 email from the teacher or his Nov. 11 interaction in the hallway.
First interaction with shooter
- 9:55 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he doesn’t remember meeting with him in May 2021. He just knows that he called down to the classroom.
Hopkins confirmed he didn’t meet with the shooter’s parents in that instance.
First interactions with shooter from the Spanish teacher about the shooter’s concerning statements in a poem, Hopkins said he followed up with the teacher. The teacher lowered the level of concern for him, so he didn’t feel the need to meet with the shooter.
He didn’t notify the parents about this instance, either.
That was because in his mind, based on the information he had, there wasn’t enough concern to reach out to the parents.
Hopkins doesn’t remember any other interactions with the shooter before Nov. 10, 2021, he confirmed to Lehman.
First interaction with shooter
- 9:55 a.m. Monday
Lehman confirmed the first interaction between Hopkins was the fall of 2020. Hopkins said no, it would have been the spring of 2021, before his sophomore year.
Hopkins said the primary focus of that meeting would have been scheduling.
Cross examination: Shawn Hopkins
- 9:54 a.m. Monday
Lehman began her cross examination of Hopkins.
Taking children home from school
- 9:52 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he has had to tell parents 15-20 times that he saw suicidal ideation in their child. He said there was no other instance, to his memory, when parents failed to take their child home from school.
Hopkins said oftentimes parents would share more information during those meetings to try to paint a more complete picture.
“Parents know their kids better than I do,” Hopkins said.
Meeting ends ‘abruptly’
- 9:51 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said Jennifer Crumbley asked “are we done?” He said the meeting seemed to end “abruptly.”
He said James Crumbley didn’t object to his wife asking if the meeting was over.
Leaving student in school
- 9:50 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said when it was clear the parents intended to go back to work, he thought it would be best if the student was with his peers, rather than home alone.
The student asked to go back to class. Ejak said there was no reason for discipline at that point.
Hopkins wrote the shooter a class to return to the end of his third hour.
Hopkins said he told the shooter that he cared about him, and he “just wanted him to know that.” He said the parents didn’t say anything like that to their son.
James Crumbley talking to shooter
- 9:49 a.m. Monday
At this time, James Crumbley was talking to his son while they looked at the hard copy of the math assignment.
James Crumbley told his son, “You have people you can talk to,” according to Hopkins.
“And it felt appropriate at that time,” Hopkins said.
Hopkins said he doesn’t recall James Crumbley sharing any additional details at that time. Hopkins said his concern was that no action was happening at that time.
More about meeting
- 9:48 a.m. Monday
Hopkins confirmed that Jennifer Crumbley got the phone call the previous day and then touched on the “areas of sadness,” and all of those items were confirmed.
Hopkins said he didn’t know any more details about the friend leaving the state.
Hopkins said he felt like he was bringing information that the parents knew, but he “wasn’t gaining information” from them.
He handed Jennifer Crumbley the list of resources and indicated that he would like the shooter to get some help. She told him they would, but they couldn’t right away. Hopkins said he’d like it to be that day, if possible.
Hopkins said he wanted to get help within 48 hours and follow up. He planned to meet with the shooter the next morning and see if any steps had been taken.
If nothing had been done, he was going to call Child Protective Services, Hopkins said.
Meeting with parents
- 9:47 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said the meeting with the parents started off “unexpected” because both parents attended.
He said the student and James Crumbley sat across from him, and Jennifer Crumbley was diagonal. Ejak returned for that portion of the meeting.
Hopkins said he felt like the parents were confirming what he said, without giving additional information.
Hopkins said the parents didn’t give him any additional information about the situation.
Shooter ‘not willing to do anything’
- 9:44 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said the shooter admitted he understands why it looked bad, but he wasn’t willing to do anything to harm himself or others.
Hopkins says he wanted student taken home
- 9:43 a.m. Monday
“My hope was that they were going to take him either to get help, or even just to take him to have a good day,” Hopkins said.
He said he wanted them to take the shooter out of school.
“I didn’t want him left alone,” Hopkins said.
Phrases added to math worksheet
- 9:41 a.m. Monday
Hopkins showed the shooter a packet that would be provided to his parents. It had some information about resources.
Hopkins spent about 90 minutes total with the shooter between when he went into the office to when the parents arrived.
Phrases added to math worksheet
- 9:40 a.m. Monday
Hopkins realized the shooter had added the words “OHS rocks” and “I love my life so much.” Hopkins said he took that as “facetious.”
Parent phone calls
- 9:40 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he then called James Crumbley, and Hopkins thinks there was an answer because he heard “just air” on the other end. But nobody said anything.
The shooter’s mother called back, and he spoke to her about the math worksheet. While he was on the phone with Jennifer Crumbley, Hopkins got a chance to see the original math worksheet drawing. He said most of what he saw confirmed what he expected.
Jennifer Crumbley said she was going to try to get her husband to go to the meeting, she couldn’t get ahold of him, so she was coming in. Both parents ultimately went to the meeting.
Theme of sadness
- 9:38 a.m. Monday
The shooter said school was tough during COVID, a family member died, a friend moved away, and a dog died.
Hopkins said everything he said had a theme of sadness, and the tone matched what the shooter was saying.
“I told him, ‘This is a lot that you’ve got going on, and I want to make sure that we get you help,’” Hopkins said.
He told the shooter he was going to call a parent. The shooter told Hopkins his mother would probably be easier to get ahold of, so Hopkins left a voicemail with Jennifer Crumbley.
More on math worksheet
- 9:37 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he put the math worksheet between himself and the shooter because he wanted the shooter to explain himself.
Hopkins said he could see “Help me” was crossed out, as well as “the thoughts won’t stop,” “my life is useless,” “harmless act,” and a drawing of one body. He was worried that the shooter might harm himself.
The shooter said it was a video game and that he liked drawing video game characters. He said he wanted to go into video game design.
Hopkins asked the shooter to explain the words written on the worksheet. He said he didn’t completely buy the explanation because of those words.
Meeting details
- 9:34 a.m. Monday
At this time, Hopkins had the email about the student watching a violent video, and he had the scribbled out version of the math worksheet drawings.
Hopkins said he asked the shooter why this was happening one day after the conversation they had about school-appropriate behavior.
The shooter told Hopkins that he had been watching a video of someone playing a video game.
Ejak was also in the meeting, sitting off to the right.
Getting student from classroom
- 9:33 a.m. Monday
When Ejak came and mentioned something was going on, Hopkins went to the math class and brought the shooter to his office.
He grabbed the math assignment at that time, and the pictures had been scribbled out by that time.
Math worksheet
- 9:32 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he was on the phone with other parents when he received an email. The dean of students, Nicholas Ejak, had been shown a picture of the math worksheet drawing, so he went to Hopkins’ office.
Ejak wanted Hopkins to talk to the student about the math worksheet drawing.
Hopkins isn’t sure if Ejak was aware that the student had been watching a violent video earlier in the day.
Video of gunfire
- 9:31 a.m. Monday
At 8:05 a.m. Nov. 30, 2021, the morning of the shooting, a teacher told Hopkins and the coordinator that the shooter was watching videos of someone “gunning down people.”
Hopkins said his initial reaction was frustration because there had just been a discussion with the shooter about school-appropriate behavior.
Parental meetings
- 9:28 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said if there’s information parents need to know, an issue can be escalated to the point where school officials call parents.
Hopkins said it would take a lot to get to the point where school officials call parents into the school.
“I would have to have a high level of concern that needed parental involvement,” Hopkins said.
Meeting with student
- 9:28 a.m. Monday
Hopkins went to the restorative practices coordinator’s office, who called the shooter to her office to talk about the email that had been sent.
Hopkins said the shooter came down toward the end of the second class. It was a “very cordial” meeting.
She asked him if he was looking for anything. He was compliant during the meeting and the conversation centered around how that internet search wasn’t appropriate. The shooter said he understood, and he returned to class.
The meeting lasted 5-10 minutes.
The coordinator called Jennifer Crumbley and left the voicemail that was played earlier in court.
Hopkins said the student didn’t indicate that he had received a gun for Christmas a few days earlier.
Searching for bullets
- 9:27 a.m. Monday
The next interaction between Hopkins and the student was on Nov. 29. A teacher sent an email to the dean of students saying that the shooter was looking up bullets in class.
The teacher said after seeing that, she looked back and noticed some of his previous work was “on the violent side.”
That email was eventually forwarded to Hopkins.
Brief interaction
- 9:24 a.m. Monday
The same teacher emailed Hopkins on Nov. 10 to say that the shooter was “having a rough time right now. He might need to speak to you.”
Hopkins said he checked in with the student in the hallway between classes the following morning. Hopkins told the student that he was available to talk to if the student needed.
Hopkins did not contact a parent at that point because “I wanted to gain any information from the student.”
“Being sad isn’t unusual, but if I had no other information other than a student is sad, it isn’t something I would call a parent over,” Hopkins said.
‘His family is a mistake’
- 9:23 a.m. Monday
On Sept. 8, 2021, a different teacher emailed Hopkins and asked him to touch base with the shooter.
“In his auto-biography poem, he said that he feels terrible and that his family is a mistake,” the teacher wrote. “Unusual responses for sure.”
Hopkins said he doesn’t recall any meetings with the shooter. He said he had a conversation with the teacher, and the teacher said the shooter was joking with others in the class, so it didn’t rise to the level of concern that she thought.
Hopkins said it was found that no further involvement was required.
Checking grades
- 9:21 a.m. Monday
Grades are available to parents on a system called “PowerSchool.”
Failing class
- 9:20 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he knows that there was a phone call in spring of 2021 from a teacher about the shooter. He said he was called into the classroom, but he doesn’t remember that meeting.
The teacher was an English teacher. She asked Hopkins to call the shooter down to his office, saying he’s “failing my class and tries to sleep ALL the time.”
Hopkins said he would catch him “before the end of the day.”
“Thanks, just a little worried,” Hopkins replied.
He said the evidence from everything suggests he had that meeting. He didn’t contact the parents because it was a “check-in” and it didn’t raise to the level of concern to contact a parent.
Scheduling
- 9:19 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said he likely would have first interacted with the student during scheduling of his freshman year in February 2021. Those meetings were done virtually.
He said he doesn’t remember that meeting, in particular.
Shooter’s counselor
- 9:18 a.m. Monday
There were four counselors for the school, which had about 1,700-1,800 students. Students were assigned to counselors alphabetically.
The shooter was assigned to Hopkins’ case load.
Suicidal ideation
- 9:17 a.m. Monday
Suicidal ideation is looking at themes, ideas, or behaviors that could be associated with suicide.
Hopkins said there might be signs of sadness that aren’t necessarily suicidal, but if left unchecked, those themes could later lead to suicide attempts.
COVID pandemic
- 9:14 a.m. Monday
Hopkins said Oxford High School was in person in the fall of 2021, but all students and teachers were wearing face masks due to the COVID pandemic.
He said social and emotional health was on the radar for counselors. He said there was anxiety coming out of the remote learning phase.
He said there were “at least four” students who attempted suicide.
Hopkins’ responsibilities
- 9:14 a.m. Monday
Hopkins helped students transition into further education or employment.
He had regular meetings with students about scheduling, but the social or emotional issues were discussed as needed.
Hopkins was not involved with discipline.
Witness: Shawn Hopkins
- 9:10 a.m. Monday
The prosecution called Shawn Hopkins, who was an Oxford High School counselor at the time of the shooting.
He is currently on leave.
Hopkins testified during Day 3 of the Jennifer Crumbley trial.
Jury brought in
- 9:09 a.m. Monday
The jury was brought in and proceedings began nearly on time.
Judge enters
- 9:08 a.m. Monday
Judge Matthews entered the room, and court is in session.
James Crumbley arrives
- 9:07 a.m. Monday
James Crumbley entered the courtroom, escorted by two Oakland County deputies, and took his place next to Lehman at the defense table.
Rest of prosecution arrives
- 9:05 a.m. Monday
McDonald and chief assistant Oakland County Prosecutor David Williams have joined Keast, Willis, and Brandon.
Family members in courtroom
- 9:04 a.m. Monday
The father of Craig Shilling and the mother of Madisyn Baldwin are both in the courtroom gallery.
Family members of the students who were killed have been at court for many of the proceedings.
More arrivals in court
- 9 a.m. Monday
Marc Keast just walked in with a box of documents. He spoke briefly to Lehman.
ATF Special Agent Brett Brandon walked in behind Keast and also set a box down beneath the prosecution’s table.
Scene in courtroom
- 8:53 a.m. Monday
Defense attorney Mariell Lehman is at the defense table, and James Crumbley’s tie is draped over the back of the other chair.
Lt. Timothy Willis is the only person seated at the prosecution’s table. An aide is setting up the table for Karen McDonald and Marc Keast.
Last week’s proceedings
- 8:41 a.m. Monday
If you want to revisit what happened last week, here are our previous update articles:
- Day 2 of trial (March 8).
- Day 1 of trial (March 7).
- Day 2 of jury selection (March 6).
- Day 1 of jury selection (March 5).
‘Ran out of witnesses’
- 8:28 a.m. Monday
The reason for Friday’s early end to proceedings? Prosecutors ran out of witnesses.
Matthews explained that witnesses have to be scheduled to appear in court on certain days, and because proceedings moved so quickly, there was nobody in the courtroom to testify after Gibson-Marshall.
Conclusion this week?
- 8:13 a.m. Monday
Matthews told the jury on Friday that she expects this case to wrap up before the end of this week.
“We’ll definitely finish by next week,” Matthews said. “You will definitely be finished by next week. That’s the good part. But we’re making good progress. In fact, some of the witnesses have been deleted from the witness list.”
Witnesses so far
- 7:59 a.m. Monday
The prosecution has called six witnesses to the stand so far. Here’s a full list:
- Molly Darnell, an Oxford High School staff member who was shot in the arm during the school shooting.
- Edward Wagrowski, a former member of the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office computer crimes unit.
- Robert Koteles, a crime scene supervisor for the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office.
- Cammy Back, who works at the gun store where the SIG Sauer handgun.
- Sgt. Joe Brian, a detective sergeant with the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office.
- Kristy Gibson-Marshall, the assistant principal at Oxford High School.
Today’s schedule
- 7:48 a.m. Monday
Judge Matthews excused the jury early on Friday and asked them to be back at the courthouse and ready to go by 9 a.m. Monday.
Proceedings started on time during Day 1 of the trial on Thursday, but they were much later on Day 2.
